Regenerative by Design

Hello everyone, you are
listening to the regenerative by

design podcast where we will be
getting to the root of health,

climate, economics and food. I
am your host, Joanie Kenmore.

Join me on this journey as we
explore the stories of

individuals and organizations
who are working to realign our

food system with both human
health and the health of our

planet. Okay, hello, everybody.
Thank you so much for joining us

for another session of
regenerative by design. I'm

really pleased to have Craig
Anderson joining us today from

dryland genetics. Good morning,
Craig.

Good morning. Yeah, I'm

really thrilled that you could
make the time. I've gotten to

know Craig over the last couple
of years, because he is doing a

lot of pioneering work in his
role as CEO at DryLin, genetics

and Ames, Iowa. And Craig, I'm
excited for you to tell our

audience a little bit about your
background for one and how you

came to be working in the
millets genetic and breeding

space. For those of you who are
out there in the audience, and

you're not familiar with how
important seed in genetics is in

the world of food. You're going
to learn a lot today from Craig,

as he's really working at the
leading edge of this. And as we

look at our whole global food
system, and we start to realize

that we want to bring, you know
reawakened crops into our modern

food system, a huge piece of the
puzzle that we often fail to

talk about is genetics, and
breeding, and how we select the

perfect millets. For the modern
situation. We're in today's. So,

Craig, if you want to get us
started a little bit, and just

tell us a little about your
background, because you actually

have a fantastic background
before you came to be working in

the field of millets.

Sure, first of all, I pleasure
to be with you today. And you

know, I think back on on kind of
growing up, I grew up in

agriculture. So I grew up in a
farm in southeast Minnesota, and

have really spent my entire life
in agriculture. And after

graduating from college, I went
to work for a seed company. And

I spent the next 32 years
working with that seed company,

mostly in the in the corn and
soybean space, and really had

the opportunity to watch crops,
crop breeding genetics, and some

of the things that we were able
to help growers with, really

changed the way crops were grown
and the expectation of how they

can withstand, you know,
difficult environments, whether

it's drought or heavy insect
pressure. And so I did that for

32 years and, and then was
looking for something new, a new

challenge to kind of take on
and, and in October of 2021, the

opportunity to go to work for
dryland genetics came up dryland

genetics was a proso, millet
breeding company that had been

formed in in 2014, I'll tell you
just a little bit of that story.

Because because it's a really
neat story. And then in October

of 2021, they were looking to
take the venture to the next

level and go commercial with it.
And so they, they, they brought

me on to basically develop a
seed organization, a seed

structure that could could take
their breeding program to the

next level. And so that's what I
did. When I think about dryland

genetics, you know, and I wasn't
really familiar with proso

millet to be completely honest.
And I guess I'd said birds in

the past so that was one of the
big uses for proso millet and

but but actually getting to know
the story was pretty cool

because the co founders are a
father son team. They're both

professors patch novel at Iowa
State. And, and his son James at

University of Nebraska. And
they're both PhDs in plant

genetics and breeding. And so
they bring just a tremendous

amount of knowledge and
experience to the whole idea of

plant breeding. And, and so, the
idea for breeding with personal

millet actually started with an
experiment James was doing, and

he was looking at several
different crops in a greenhouse.

And when the study was done,
they basically just abandoned it

and laughed. And about a month
later, 40 days later, he came

back to the greenhouse and there
was one of the plants that just

didn't quit, it hadn't been
watered, it hadn't had any, you

know, fertility or anything at
it and there it was producing

grain producing, you know, just
a really nice plant and that was

white proso millet and, and so
that's kind of how dryland

genetics got started as an idea.
But the basics behind it was

really about working with water
efficiency in in agriculture,

grain crop systems. Both Pat and
James. Were really passionate

about that topic, because of the
struggle that we can see in the

US with you know, what, what is
water available? The ability

look like for for, you know,
agriculture today, clearly

agriculture is one of the
biggest consumers of water. And

and so we're going to in a water
efficient crop was really

important to them. And so when I
look at proso millet and say why

would you want to focus on that
crop? So one of the things is,

it's the most water efficient
crops being grown in the US, it

literally can produce a bushel
of grain on half the water

that's required to produce a
bushel of corn. And it also does

that with very low fertility
requirements, when you think

about added NP and K or are, you
know, just the fertility likes

to grow grain. So it's an
extremely good crop to grow from

that aspect. And then the second
reason that personal millet

makes such a great crop to be
working with is it's an

extremely nutritious grade. And
so whether it's gluten free

characteristics, we like the
fact that it's a ancient grain

non GMO, but it's also just a
really healthy grain. And I

know, you know, Johnny, you're
really familiar with that aspect

of cross millet. So I'd like to,
you know, we can visit more

about that, but, but that's why
we got started with the craft in

the very beginning.

I love it, because those are so
many, those are the reasons that

I became what people love to
tease me and call me the millet

cheerleader, or even the millet
pimp sometimes, which I kind of

have to chuckle because it's
kind of inappropriate, but

funny, just the same, because
you're always like trying to

solicit this new crop that
people haven't really heard of,

and that they don't have a lot
of familiarity with it. And if

they do, it's usually because of
poultry or bird feed. And so,

you know, when when you start
people down this path, usually

their first warm up is like, oh,
it tastes good, B, it's good for

me. D there's this huge climate
story behind it. And you know,

when I started to unpack the
deep layers of the climate

impact and the resiliency around
millet as a crop, that's when I

became like, convicted in the
fact that not only was it good

for us and tastes great, etc.
But we have to as a society

embrace crops like proso millet,
that can produce food in the

face of extreme, you know,
adversity from either like

climate extremes, like what
doctors naval experienced. I've

seen that was firsthand. Um, and
back in 2021, I believe we had a

heat dome, I think it was 2021
or 2022. And I was already

involved with a lot of millet
projects. But that particular

year in the Pacific Northwest,
we had this extreme weather

event where it was like 115 117
degrees, like the surface level

temperatures were like over 150
degrees, like it was crazy. And

one of the farmers that I work
with who is on a regenerative

transition pathway, so he's
bringing in different, you know,

diversity of crops. And proso
millet was on his agenda that

year, he had harvested his
wheat. And so there was a lot of

great stubble there. And he went
in with a grain drill. And he

drilled that person millet right
into that stubble. Well, you

know, two weeks of no rain, and
then the heat dome later, we

just assumed there's no way that
that person millet will ever

sprout or do anything. It never
had a drop of rain, extreme

heat, I mean catastrophic heat.
And what do you know that

October, we were out there
harvesting that proso millet,

and it was stunted. I mean, it
wasn't the most beautiful high

yielding proso millet, but it
did it it actually was able to

germinate. We attribute that to
the wicking of the moisture at

night just from the humidity.
And we're in a dry part of the

world. So there's not a lot of
humidity, but the wicking of the

wheat straw was able to be just
enough to get that proso millet

to germinate and to grow. And
for me, that was a turning point

when it came to advocacy for
proso millet as a crop. Because

seeing that firsthand that it
had been completely given up on.

It hadn't been I don't think it
had any fertilizer. I don't

think anything was done to it.
It literally was kind of given

up on and we still were managed
to have a pretty decent, decent

yield given the circumstances.
And you know, but that opened up

my eyes to all these other
things that are needed to

develop this crop and
commercialize it for modern

agricultural settings. You know,
as we know, millet has extreme

diversity of genetics around the
world, but it's more like

landrace varietals, you know,
they're they're kind of hidden

in little nooks and crannies
around the world where this is

still commonly consumed. And I
know that Dr. snapeval did do a

global assessment of what they
called germ plasm of prosa

millet to get this started, and
if you wouldn't mind sharing a

little bit about that. I think
that's so fascinating. It's

almost like gathering the
genetic history and lore of a

forgotten crop, which is kind
Have any adventure? Yeah,

sure. That's, you know, so one
of the things about any seed

company is really kind of its
its future success will always

be based on the kind of the
depth and breadth of his

germplasm pool that has
available to work with weather,

whatever crop that would be in.
And could

you can you define germplasm for
our listeners who are not as

familiar with how breeding works
just a little quick crash course

is basically the parental seed
of whatever variety or crop

you're talking about whether
that's corn, soybeans, proso,

millet, vegetables, like
tomatoes, watermelon germ plasm

is just the the actual basic
parental material that's being

used to produce new varieties
or, you know, grow grow hybrid

production. And so what the
Snoballs were able to do was

actually go out and source white
proso millet all over the world.

And they came up with about 720
distinct different germ plasm

pools to work with through that
effort. All of those amazing

germ plasm pools had freedom to
operate, meaning we were able to

use that in our breeding program
without any restriction. And so

then they basically looked at at
a genetic sequencing model that

actually let them understand the
different diversity of those

pools of, of white proso millet
and and what we found was, to

your point, everything was a
little bit geographically tight.

So if it came from a certain
area, the diversity was actually

very narrow. So for example, the
US germplasm approach or millet

was a very narrow germplasm
pool, what we were able to do is

immediately start making crosses
between those pools of germ

plasm that really blew up the
diversity of proto millet and

just made a foundation for what
dryland genetics has to work

with going forward. And then
I'll talk a little bit about

some of our targets today,
because we move beyond the

important aspect of agronomic
performance and yield

performance in breeding new
varieties. And now we're looking

at more specific and use market
application to our program. So

that were actually better than
or better fit for their for

their use.

Okay, I'm gonna just give a
little quick synopsis of that

for our listeners, because what
you just said, could be easily

missed. And it's very, very
profound, because one of the

reasons why I was immediately so
excited when I heard about the

work of dryland genetics is the
is shifting that paradigm away

from our food system and our ag
system being solely focused on

just, you know, bigger is better
Supersize Me like, you know,

it's all about the yield.
Instead, you guys are also

focused on you know, usability
yield is always an important

part of the puzzle. But we need
to be breeding for climate

resiliency and nutrition as as
things that are of equal

importance, and that is actually
something that is very

foundationally different than
what has been driving our more

agronomic system the last 50
years like post Great Green

Revolution. And especially when
you're dealing with a plant that

doesn't require or respond to
really high fertilizer dosing.

And you know, that that's also a
really critical piece of the

puzzle that we've been directing
a lot of our breeding breeding

programs for varieties that the
more nitrogen you dump on them,

the bigger and fatter they get.
And now in this situation, we're

looking at germ plasm, and
genetics that have that

resiliency where you're breeding
for more nuanced things that are

important for health and planet.
So thank you, I just wanted to

give a little wrap up there for
our listeners. Oh,

that's fantastic. You know, so
So when I think about proso

millet as a grain crop, we
actually think about okay, it's

good for crop rotation. In the
US it's good because it's water

efficiency, it's good because it
uses a very limited amount of

resourcing in fertilizers and
whatnot to grow the crop. So

what makes him great green crop
but then if you shift to say,

you know, why is post homolytic
great grain that really gets

exciting because that's the
aspect that I believe has been

overlooked for a long time in
the US there's other countries

around the world that use postal
millet as a food as a feed and

have you know for a long time
but when I think about personal

millet as a grain I really think
about first its use in food. And

why do I think that that's
exciting is is if you look at

the nutritional value of prozone
Millet being gluten free okay,

that already covers a lot of
people who are looking for

something very specific in in
grain as as a you know, a food

source. And then you go to it's
low glycemic and very new

nutrient rich characteristics,
you know, it just brings in so

much value as a food ingredient
that I think the US will

continue to see growth of millet
as it's used in food. Then if

you look at opportunity that
exists today, it's mostly wild

bird seed or premium pet food.
But university studies that have

been done recently have shown
that it's extremely effective as

as a replacement for corn in
both hog and poultry ration,

we're actually seeing the
benefit of switching out the,

you know, the corn in poultry
rations, and actually getting

better performance. And now what
we're looking into is, are we

actually getting more nutritious
and products, whether that's an

egg, or whether it's a chicken
breast. So we're continuing our

work with universities to
actually support those studies

that can validate, you know, the
use of that as a as a feed in

the ration.

That is such an important topic
right now, because it has really

been long, undervalued,
especially when you're looking

at the end quality and nutrient
density of an egg. Not all eggs

are created equal, is what we're
finding. And if we can find that

a change in the feed in poultry
creates a better nutrient dense

and product. That's that is when
the consumers will start to

respond and support these kinds
of changes. And then there's

always this upside that, you
know, when you really kind of

calculate out some of the math
switching away from a heavy

irrigation commodity food to
something like proso millet,

where you're dramatically
reducing your water footprint.

Now it starts to make the
conversation around animal food,

less climate impactful. Um, you
know, when it comes to water,

and when it comes to a lot of
other things that that tend to

be really hot topics in today's,
you know, food climate

intersection conversations. So I
really love that you guys are

taking a deep dive into that to
better understand that.

Yeah, we've got we've got
several projects that are

ongoing with with universities,
but then we're also starting to

work with the industry. And it's
exciting to hear and note that

there's actually a level of
interest, whether that be group

groups like you know, the Hormel
Giniel group, or even the big

groups like Tyson, that there
are people in those

organizations that are
interested in what I would call

the reality of that story.
Meaning it's both a climate

friendly way to produce grain to
feed animals. But it's also a

very nutritious feed, that can
actually have, you know, a big

impact in a big outcome. So it's
nice to see actually some energy

behind that. And, you know,
we're supportive of, of any of

those initiatives that can
expand the use and let people

see the value, of course,
absolutely.

And you know, one of the things
that I think is of note when

we're discussing a crop like pro
Samila, is that it's not

necessarily competing with like
another cash crop for acreage, a

lot of the time, the farmers
that I work with are using proso

millet either as a rescue crop
when the first crop has failed,

and they have a shorter, Hotter,
Drier season gap to fill. Or

they use it in our neck of the
woods out here in the Pacific

Northwest to eliminate summer
fallow, which is historically a

time that the ground is just
tilled and left bare, to blow

away and run away and degrade.
And we know that with

regenerative agricultural
principles, we always want to

have the ground covered with a
living route. So it really plays

a vital role in filling some of
those gap times in our more

legacy agricultural systems,
that we can sneak in a really

short growing season crop like
proso millet, that doesn't need

all the irrigation and all the
fertilizer and can actually be

grown in areas that have been
deemed not really great for

agriculture anymore, and maybe
at threat for desertification.

You look at like the Southwest
along the Colorado, where

there's been dramatic impacts to
access to water rights and for

irrigation. And a lot of times
that we hear from farmers will

have you know, we're throwing in
the towel because we can't grow

anything because we don't have
access to the irrigation we need

for our alfalfa or whatever
else. I invite those farmers to

start thinking about growing
these climate resilient crops

that that need a fraction of the
water and fertilizer so they can

still keep that arable land
productive and not let it go

towards a desert of fight
abandoned status. I'd love to

hear your thoughts on

on for sure that I mean, that's
one of the key reasons why, you

know, we're looking at expanding
the what I would call the

recognized use of personal
Melendez as a feed ingredient.

You know, we believe that as
water issues become more intense

that it will become more
difficult to raise corn in some

of the areas that are raising
Corn today. And to your point

what what's a crop that could
actually come in and help these

guys still find a really
economical way to farm ground?

You know, the neat thing about
corn is, is it is so much more

resilient than it was 20 years
ago. And that's through breeding

progress, and just some of the
tools that we use around

production management. But
there's still a mathematical

formula of how much water it
takes to grow a bushel of corn,

that that math doesn't change.
And when you look at a craft

that can actually do that same
bushel of grain on half the

water requirement, that's a
significant step change, I mean,

that's something that will make
a difference in water

utilization, and still allow for
production of grain. So I think,

I think that, that, you know,
proving that this is a good

direction, and benefiting both
the farmer, the producer of

grain, and the end user that you
know, the person feeding

livestock or feeding people or
feeding, you know, pets, that

that this is a great
combination. And it's and it

really is a win win for the
environment and the people as

well. So, you know, we're pretty
excited about our breeding

program is making progress we
were talking about, you know,

that it's not just about
agronomic seed yield anymore, it

will always be about economics
and yield. But we've been able

to go beyond that and start
thinking about end use value. So

whether that's just uniform
maturation, one of the things

that farmers are up against
growing proso millet is that the

way the crop matures, by the
time the whole seed head is

mature, it's subject to
shattering. And so then you can

have lost grain that isn't
harvestable. Well, through

breeding, we can actually work
on changing the dynamics, the

physiology of how that grain
head matures, so that the farmer

can actually straight cut the
variety and save all of the

grain versus worrying about
shatter. And so that's

what was the big deal for ways
Yeah, we're working on that for,

really to benefit farmers. But
then there's other things like,

are waxy varieties are easy to
be hauling varieties are large

seeded varieties, that all have
specific value end for end

users. And, for example, just
easy to hauling, if we can limit

the amount of waste and lost
during the healing process by 25

to 30%, because of the new
varieties, that makes a

significant value to the whole
food chain, when we're bringing

D hauled millet into whether
it's flour or whether it's used

as you know, just old mill it
for food

absolutely brings the cost down
a lot to the consumer. Because

you know, ultimately, when
you're buying millet on the

market today, you know, you you
are paying for some of that loss

during the inefficiencies of the
processing. And so all of these

initiatives help us get pro
simulate to a point where it

really is more appropriate and
scalable in modern food systems,

which is so important. I love
that you guys have have worked

on the easy to D haul aspects of
it because I know when I first

started talking to Dr. Sable
Schnabel at UVA University of

Nebraska Lincoln, I was like
That is such a big deal. For

those of us on the food side, I
really begged for you guys to

make that a huge focus, because
we just see it as like a barrier

to commercialization. And now
that with the OMD G grant that

back of us foods and zego foods
received to get what we're

calling civic launched
collaborative integrated value

chain, we're going to have a
millet the hauler at that

facility next year so we can
start actually really working

these new varieties that you
guys are developing and bringing

them through the value chain so
we can start evaluating them for

better and quality use when it
comes to either cooking them as

a rice substitute or flowering
them millets really represent

like the wild west right now
like there's so much exploration

and there's so much creative
work that is needed to to hone

it in to the refinement that say
wheat and rice and and other

commodities enjoy because
they've had decades of people

really discerning the details.
So it's an exciting it's an

exciting place to work. Yeah,
and

I'd see some of that is actually
needed in the industry. Yes to

bring millets alongside some of
the other food grains that are

already available whether it be
rice, you think about you know

people eating starch grains like
rice potatoes, noodles. If you

haven't tried millet, you should
find a source and try proso

millet as a rice replacement for
example. I think it just makes a

really neat interesting flavor
difference for a meal. Yeah. And

and it's actually one of my big
hopes in the next year or so is

that we'll start to see posts on
millet on a grocery shelf,

whether it's Kroger or or Costco
or any of the big chains, just

like you'd see cane water
rights. Today you can find some

millet flour and some some other
things of millet occasionally

you can find millet at at Whole
Foods and some some of the other

health food stores. But yeah, I
would like to see Muller readily

available to everyone as a
choice, consumer choice. And

then as people try it, I mean,
I've been amazed at how many

friends and family have tried
millet and said, Oh, my gosh, I

didn't know what we were missing
it. We had never even thought of

it. Yeah.

And so I hear that a lot, too,
from people. And honestly, like,

where I'm also very excited to
see more millet, and it's

happening with conversations
that we're developing on the

snack of a side is to get it in
front of chefs. And so that way,

chefs can start serving it to
people because you look at like

what happened with quinoa. And I
remember buying quinoa in the

early 90s and cooking with it.
And it was back when you had to

soak it because it saw the
saponins I mean, there were a

lot of barriers to the bringing
bringing popularity to Kinlaw.

But they managed to do it. And
it's really fascinating. Sergio

Nunez, the arco who's a friend
of mine, and, and lends a lot of

efforts and wisdom to the snatch
of this initiative. We'll have

him on the show here soon. He is
really one of the godfathers of

the modern clean water movement.
He's Bolivian and he really

wrote that entire wave and
really understands what is

needed to popularize the new
green in modern markets. And we

do know that chefs and getting
those influential chefs, working

with these new greens, that's
how they drive the awareness in

consumers. Because they're like,
Oh, I've seen that in the store.

But I was scared to try it. I
didn't really know what to do

with it. And I didn't know how
it tasted. But then they go out

to dinner. And what do you know,
somebody serves a millet to

Bulli? Or, you know, maybe even
just blends, millet was rice

instead of just plain rice.
Definitely, their mind is open

and their palate is open to a
new experience. And then they're

more apt to go home and try it
themselves.

Yeah, I was kind of surprised.
It took me as long as it did to

ever really tried millet. Now
there's there's millet in Kind

bars and some of the other help
like the 12, grain breads, a lot

of those will use millet. But
but our family now eats millet

on a regular basis as literally
as a rice substitute. Or like

you mentioned, you make a rice
millet combination meal. And

it's extremely well. But yeah,

it's actually really delightful.
I mean, when kids come over,

they're a little scared, because
it doesn't look just plain

white. But you know, honestly,
what we hear from even kids here

in North Idaho, which not to
pick on my local community, but

not always is adventurous with
like eating choices. So like,

you know, it's just a little
it's, we don't have the ethnic

diversity here that drives
discovery of a lot of new

ingredients. And so, you know,
we'll get these kids that come

over, and they're scared to
death at first, and then they

try it and then they love it.
And then they come back and ask

for it again. So I'm always
happy that they're getting a

little more nutrition because I
tell you, when you look at pro

Samila, against white polished
rice, commodity white polished

rice, it's night and day. And
that's how we're going to really

debunk this whole anti carb
movement that's taken over the

mass media in the last 20 years.
We're just eating the wrong

carbs. I mean, we're eating
highly refined carbohydrate

sources that have really had a
lot of their nutritional values

scraped away. And they've been
bred for carbohydrates, not for

nutritional integrity. And no
wonder people are shunning

carbs, which is really a
tragedy, I really feel strongly

about reclaiming our
carbohydrate staple sector, and

just demanding that it delivers
nutrition again. And that's,

again, you know, I mentioned
earlier on that, when used as a

food, I think, I think that
nutrient rich density of cocoa

millet will continue to add
value as a food source. And then

you know, whether it's low
glycemic or gluten free, I mean,

that's helping some people out
that really need something

different than the norm. And so
again, I I fully expect we'll

see proto millet become a bigger
staple in the food ingredients

space. Absolutely, if we can, if
we can have a bit of success,

we'll see it become used, again
as a feed source in both maybe

hog and poultry rations, really
giving growers the opportunity

to think about a crop rotation
strategy that adds something new

into the mix for him. And part
of the benefit of our breeding

program is that we can actually
start to now geographically

expand where ProSolo is and has
been grown in the US because it

was really grown in the High
Plains due to its water

efficiency for the most part,
but varieties were actually

developed for that geographic
area. And so because of the kind

of the depth of our, our, our
breeding pool, we're actually

able to go south go west to go
north. and really look at proso

millet working specifically with
new varieties in new in new

geographies, which I think is
also going to be necessary to

expand the supply chain model
approach.

Absolutely, yeah. Because as, as
the discovery, you know, starts

to happen. And we are having
conversations with some really

fantastic medically tailored
meals companies, and

institutional food service
because they're interested in

things that, you know, can
substitute for rice with a

better nutritional profile and
more favorable glycemic index,

that's going to trigger demand.
And right now, that's what our

farmers need. Because the last
couple of years, we've had a

surge of interest from farmers
wanting to plant and grow proso

millet, we had last year's UN
year of millets, at the UN FAO.

But we still don't have that
market poll established. And

that's a place where I'm very
focused on working to develop is

getting that millet in front of
people. So we can start to

ignite that demand cycle that
will help support the farmers

that are growing prosa millet,
rather than having them be stuck

with millet at the end of season
and not having a a way to move

it to market or a stable
contract in place that gives

them any sort of protection
around their pricing. I know

that you've dealt with a lot of
that, to me,

that's still one of the fun
things about about building out

this dryland genetics story is,
is really the fact that, you

know, while we're a breeding
company, producing new varieties

for seed, we're extremely
involved and very passionate

about helping to develop the end
use markets, and then really

think about the supply chain
model that's going to have to

change to make the story
successful.

Yeah, there's a lot of moving
parts in the middle there that,

you know, honestly, you just
don't even know are there until

you're trying to navigate
through it. I was so surprised.

A few years back when I first
started getting involved in

farmer connected supply chains,
that we had all this fantastic

millet and we're the closest
place to get it hauled was 1000s

of miles away. So when you did
the math on trucking it halfway

across the continent, paying to
process it and shipping it all

the way back, suddenly, you're
paying for a very expensive

commodity, not because of the
cost of the commodity, but

literally just the trucking to
get it moved through the value

chain. So it's been a real focus
of ours, the last few years just

to really catalyze that, you
know, fixing the bottlenecks in

processing. But you know, again,
it's it's all they all have to

move at the same time, all the
pieces of the puzzle, have to

move at the same time. And then
all the while had this consumer

communication and education
piece that's happening. So are

you guys that dryland genetics
working with, like any

influencers out there in the
market, that are like helping to

educate the public about how
cool Mila is? So

you know, right now, to be fair,
a lot of our effort is actually

spent also on the fuel side. So
we're looking at being used as

an ethanol feedstock, and
really, for a couple of key

reasons. One is it has a carbon
intensity score that is

significantly better than that
of corn, especially corn grown,

grown under irrigation. And then
secondly, just the very nature

of of its fiber content versus
corn, it's got to add added

value in the in this space that
we believe will become big and

sustainable aviation fuel. And
so we're actually doing some a

lot of work right now in the
public relations side of things

with, with the government to
make sure that that millet isn't

forgotten when this whole new 45
Z comes along. And we're looking

at, you know, what, you know,
what crops qualify for programs

under the sustainable fuels act?
Yeah, that being said, that

we're also still very engaged
with people on the on the food

and feed side. And really, what
we're trying to do is, is just

give people the opportunity to
do some trialing to do some

things that can prove the value.
And that's where we can we can

be kind of partners in long in
the process. And so, so we've

been trying to be really
supportive in in that space with

with both food companies and
with with poultry producers and

feed companies and then
supporting the academic side of

research trials being done.

Over the next I'm glad you
brought up this. Yeah, I'm glad

you brought up the sustainable
aviation fuel piece because it

is actually a really big deal
right now, for those of you who

aren't following those
conversations. It's a hot topic

right now. And the carbon
intensity scores are I mean,

that's the name of the game
right now Thank you for bringing

that up. Again,

you know, that can be a subject
where people are on either side

of the fence on a hard way
about, you know, using grain as

a fuel source. Yeah, but one of
the things that I get excited

about is, the more realistically
sustainable, you make that whole

process, the better the model
is. And while

otherwise,

I was supportive of it being in
the corn industry, most of my

career, I'm really excited about
millet having an opportunity to

at least play in that space. One
of the things that would be very

beneficial is that would help
mature out the supply chain.

Because one of the things that
ethanol will do is always go to

the lowest practical feedstock
that they can produce ethanol

from. And so that can help even
out the the highs and lows of

what's been the millet market
and consume a lot of rain in

times of overproduction, but
still be supportive when when,

you know when things are in a
different spot. But But yeah, I

mean, dryland genetics is is a
breeding company. But we're much

more focused on how do we use
the product we're working on in

breeding? How can we actually
make it a more reliable and

sustainable product in the in
the food and feed space, you

really have to look at the whole
system. When you're bringing a

reawakened crop to market at
scale. It's impossible to solely

focus on one of the use cases
for it, because that is the

reality of, of agriculture. I
mean, it's it's rare that you

have just one thing grown for
one part of the plant. I mean,

there's just so many diverse
uses, you have Grade A Grade B,

that naturally because not every
crop turns out perfect. What do

you do with the imperfect
harvest. And that's where animal

feed and things like a, you
know, sustainable fuel

initiatives can play a vital
role in just making sure that we

don't have waste on the market
that doesn't have an end use.

And I have always been a little
skeptical about corn and

sustainable ethanol production
just because of the water

intensity and the fertilizer
intensity of corn. It just

didn't necessarily always add up
to me when when looked through a

true cost accounting
perspective. So I'm just so

happy to hear, you know, sorghum
gets involved in these

conversations a lot. And I work
with sorghum and sorghum, a

geneticist and agronomist, as
well. And it's just neat to see

this whole interconnected
conversation really take hold

and grow. So I'm really great.
You know, one last thing, Craig,

that I would love for you, just
to clarify with our audience,

might not, I frequently find
that people are not super clear

about the difference between
classic plant breeding and

genetic modification. And, you
know, one of the conversations

that comes up a lot with people
in my world, is that, you know,

when we when we have huge
germplasm reserves of new

genetics to explore, we could
spend a lifetime just working

there without ever needing
artificial genetic modification.

But when people hear the word
plant breeding, they often their

mind immediately goes to like
CRISPR technology. So could you

could you just add a little bit
into a conversation about your

philosophy at dryland genetics
on on plant breeding? So

one, you know, to be very clear,
dryland genetics isn't doing

anything with genetically
modifying personal milk. And so

there's, there's really, when
you think about, you know, the

answer to your question there.
There's what we all have been,

you know, heard of in the past
of GMOs. So basically, that's a

genetically modified organism.
For the most part, I think there

was maybe 15 different crops
that have been genetically

modified that way, but for the
most part that was actually

being done to confer insect
tolerance, or herbicide

tolerance into the plant.
There's, there's been a few

other modifications, but that's
primarily what what was used in

creating genetically modified
organisms. There's a newer

technology I would call gene
editing, that really uses very

specific tools to make gene edit
changes. It's not modifying it

by adding in anything that
wasn't there. But it's using a

very specific scientific process
to edit the, the general of the

plant. What we do at dryland
genetics is classical breeding,

but we're using the modern
science of sequencing so we

actually understand the
populations that we're breeding

with. So, so that those three
things are basically traditional

plant breeding. You have the
very new modern science of gene

editing, which isn't it's
basically What I would call

Super Science breeding,
traditionally, you're using some

very specific tools. And you're
making some very unique edits to

the plant. But it's not that
different than what happens in

traditional plant breeding, when
you're letting mother nature do

those edits, and then select it
for the genetic modification was

something different, because
that was adding something that

the plant didn't already have
naturally. Yeah, and so to me,

that's kind of the three
differences there, I'm not

advocating for anyone being bad
or anyone being really good.

Other than I think, the more
scientific we are in our

approach to plant breeding is,
the more we'll be able to draw

out of plants, and keeping the
what I would call the healthy

profiles or, or the value added
things that things like millet

have today, we'll be able to
keep those intact, because we'll

understand what we've actually
done with our, with our breeding

in advance.

Yeah, and it's such a hot topic
that gets very polarizing. And I

think right now, it's really
exciting to work with companies

that are using classic plant
breeding, but leaning into

science to help expedite the
process. So that because we

don't have a lot of time to wait
when you really look at like

temperature trends that are
happening globally, and how that

impacts our ability to grow
crops to feed the world and feed

our livestock and whatnot. So
time is of the essence, I

wouldn't want you guys to take
25 years to develop a viable

seed crop. So I love that you
guys are leaning into like, you

know, just good, good sound
science to help accelerate that,

but without the you know, like,
like actually, like actually

doing anything invasive, like,
you know, classic GMO type

things because that just gets
into a lot of murky ground. For

a lot of people. It is a hot
topic, I tend to kind of, I have

my own personal beliefs about
it. But I love when I find

people who are really doing high
quality scientific breeding. And

but still using nature's
toolbox. It's really great at

scale. So good job, you guys.
It's it's really, it's really

fun to watch everything that you
are all doing. And as someone

who's a millet, innovator, and
really developing those markets,

your work is critical to all of
our success. So I just want to

thank you for joining us. And
we'll go ahead and wrap it up.

You know, and I know that this
has been a jam packed session

full of all kinds of great
information. So for those of you

who are listening, if you want
to reach out to Craig Anderson

at DryLin, genetics, I know that
he's on LinkedIn and responsive

there and, and whatnot. So we
can put his information in the

show notes. So you can learn
more about DryLin genetics and

about Craig's work and the work
of both Dr. Staples and the

things that they're doing to
help advance climate resilient

agriculture. So thanks so much
for joining us, Greg. It's been

lovely. Thank you. Pleasure

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