Regenerative by Design

Joanne, hello everyone. You are
listening to the regenerative by

design podcast where we will be
getting to the root of health,

climate, economics and food. I
am your host. Joni quinwell

Moore. Join me on this journey
as we explore the stories of

individuals and organizations
who are working to realign our

food system with both human
health and the health of our

planet. Hello everybody, and
thank you for joining the

regenerative by design podcast.
I am so thrilled to have our

guest here today, Ali Cox of
noble West, calling in from

California. Welcome Ali,

thanks for having me on. Joni,

yeah, I'm so excited I Ali and I
have known each other for a

couple of years, and I think,
you know, we definitely

pioneered a lot of our
enthusiasm for each other around

our love of making farmers the
center of the story and

rethinking that farmer narrative
and the American food system,

not just through the lens of
like tractors and overalls, But

through farmers as sophisticated
CEOs that feed the world. He's

going to kick it off with that

exactly because it's really not
about the tractor. It's really

not about in my, my opinion,
it's not really about the AG,

it's actually about the food.
This is a food system. It's not

an it should not be an
agriculture system. So that is a

thing where I feel like, Joni,
you and I have always sort of

aligned on, like, how do we give
the people what they need in

order to make decisions that are
value based? And also, you know,

just climate focused in a lot of
ways

and a percent. And, you know,
it's interesting, what the power

of words and like just
vernacular. Because when you

talk to farmers today who are
frustrated with the current

model, they often mention that
they don't like just growing

commodities. They actually want
to grow food again. And from

people outside of our work, they
often don't, don't realize that

that's happening, and I think
that contributes to that

separation culturally between
agriculture and food, when in

reality, that's where our food
system starts, is there in the

field. And so I know that you
have an incredible amount of

wisdom when it comes to
unpacking this content and this

story, because you work as a
marketer, and I would love for

you to share with our audience a
little bit about noble West and

your background, you actually
have a really fun and

fascinating story. But how did
you get to where you are today,

where you're you're
intentionally working to tell

those stories about high quality
supply chains that impact human

health, impact the climate, but
also, you know, still make the

farmer the hero of the story.

Thank you. Um, so noble West is
a marketing agency, and we do

quite a few advertising
campaigns that are all

agriculture or food ingredient
based. So like I started off,

saying we're an agricultural
marketing agency, and frankly, I

don't actually think that's
perfectly accurate anymore. Now

I think we are a sustainability
consultancy. I think that we are

climate focused consultancy, and
really we're just getting more

and more narrow in our approach
and but it all kind of goes back

to the food ingredient. We work
with farmers, we work with

processors, we work with Mills,
who are looking to create more

value for their food to get a
bigger ROI. We work in a lot of

ag tech companies who are
looking to sort of stabilize and

like future, like future focus
of future minded farming

operations. And it's a real it's
a real honor. And I think I

should probably start off by
mentioning I am a fifth

generation farmer on both sides
of my family, so on my mom's

side and my dad's side. So I
have always grown up in farming.

All of I have, you know, been
raised by all entrepreneurs and

risk takers. Let's be real. So
for me, it's really about like,

it's really about honoring my
history in my past, but quite

frankly, understanding that what
God is here is not going to get

us there, and so we have a lot
of work to do. Because I think

the whole crux of the matter is,
is that farmers, especially if

they're a contract farmer, and
they don't own their own brand

or they don't own their own
processing equipment, they are

effectively just like a cog in
the supply chain, which means

that they're only compensated on
yield and nothing else. They're

not compensated on the
qualitative measures, on how

they farm, on the investments
they make on farm. So for them,

they're trying to be as
efficient as possible and create

the most yield, which, as you we
all know here, that's the

freaking problem, and that also
doesn't align with what

consumers want. And it also just
doesn't incentivize like,

really, like, some of the
qualitative like, like things

that consumers are looking for,
which is. Is, right? And, you

know, if you don't have a brand,
you really, it's a whole

different story.

Yeah, it's interesting how
yield, and this kind of just

quantity over quality paradigm
has really taken hold across the

food system, the majority of the
food system, and I often like to

say it's like a it's like a tug
of war between efficiency and

effectiveness, because we need
efficiency. We don't want waste.

Do we want high productivity in
whatever way is reasonable and

holistic, but we really need to
make sure that it's effective,

and if the effectiveness of any
activity in food and agriculture

comes down to impact on human
health and resiliency in

pertaining to the environment
and and climate, etc. So if

we're driving efficiency at the
cost of effectiveness and

creating an epidemic, a diet
related disease and an enormous,

you know, tragedy of
environmental destruction, then

it doesn't matter how efficient
it is, it will ultimately fail

because it's an unbalanced
system. You know, I feel like in

some commodities, this has been
way more pronounced than in

others. And I know you're from
California, which has an

incredibly rich and biodiverse
farming sector. What are the

crops that you've historically
worked with, and what are the

ingredients that you're
passionate about that are more

regionally representative from
your past, growing up as a as a

farm kid, or even now, the stuff
that you're working with today?

Well, in California, there are
over 400 crops that are grown

and marketed through the
California marketing order,

through the CDFA, and for all of
those, like ag junkies out there

who are listening to this
podcast. If you're like me, I

you'll probably find a lot of
interest of value in reading the

California the CDF, California
Department of Food and Ag

acreage report. It is absolutely
fascinating. Top exports in from

California being dairy, grapes
and almonds in most cases, and

then stone fruits, really
citrus. Stone fruit are really

close behind. So what I would
say is we work in like I think

that we're just really become
specialty crop experts, and it's

so much so that now, like we're
working in, you know, with ag

tech companies who do special
our specialty crop ag technology

experts and whatnot. And, you
know, on our family farm, we

grow almonds, we grow walnuts,
we have tomatoes, we have beans,

we have apricots, we have
cherries. And then in my husband

and my farm management business,
we do contract harvesting and

contract management for
additional crops, but very

heavy, especially like we're
based in Stanislaus County,

which is an enormous almond
growing region. It's just this,

this perfect climate ecosystem
for almonds. It's not humid,

it's incredibly hot. It's also
wet in the winter,

traditionally. So anyway, so
that's what we grow. So by the

way, yeah, thank you. We like to
think so, yeah. And so we at

Noble West, we really work on
the specialty crops, although we

have done quite a few
regenerative projects, as you

know, and which, and
regenerative, frankly, is like

being driven from the Midwest.
And I think it's just because,

like, there's less crop
diversity and bio, like

biodiversity. And so it's
actually, I want to just say,

easier to grow regeneratively,
because there's less factors. So

if you think about regenerative
farming on an almond orchard

versus like a wheat field, it's
a whole different situation.

Where, in wheat it's really
about like how you're telling

how often you're telling the
depth of your tilling and

whatnot. In almonds, it's about
the type of livestock that

you're managing. It's about, you
know, because there isn't, it's

how you absolutely change how
you harvest. Are you doing off

ground harvesting versus on
ground harvesting, dust

creation. So there's so many
factors. And the same goes for

fresh produce also. So like, a
strawberry field, like, you

can't, like, put like, you know,
like an almonds you would put,

like, there's a lot of sheep
that are now, like, running

through orchard, like green
pasture orchards, and having

like, the best life ever, like,
that is not you cannot do that

in produce. You have all sorts
of food safety issues anyway,

but it's part of it. But I mean,
I think that Joni, what you have

done, and with this podcast and
with your brand snackivist, is

really, I think, creating
education for consumers in a way

that maybe they didn't have
before, and that's just

something that I am so such. I'm
such a fangirl of yours, and.

And admire your approach, I
know. So

it's so great because it, you
know, I immediately found and

I'm a nurse. I mean, I'm a nurse
and a biologist. I was a

biologist first, and a nurse
second. But in nursing, your job

is, you are the interpreter of
the medical system, because

you're the person who actually
talks to the patients like, you

know, in the medical setting,
you know, you come in, the

doctor might say a few words,
you chances are you don't

understand it. And it's, it's
the nurses that really do the

heavy lifting when it comes to
education and implementation of

anything. And so I feel like, in
a way, brands are like the

nurses of the food system, in
that way, because they are that

connection point and that point
of humanization between

agriculture and all the big
moving parts of the food system

and the end consumer. It's
really where that that touch

point happens, unfortunately, in
CPG. I mean, CPG is a consumer

packaged goods that's the
consumer side that is an

expensive and very difficult
place to do business right now

that I think most brands are
really struggling, where their

access to capital and their
access to money to pay for

education has been severely
compromised just because of the

economy and the way that the
system is built, which has been

a struggle. I know that though
you know my friends and

colleagues that are in the
marketing and branding side you

know, have really felt that, and
it's it's unfortunately ill

timed for the regenerative
movement, because I feel like

there's never been a more
important time to really that

consumer humanization narrative.
It's so critical right now, and

people are aching for it. People
are aching for brands that they

can connect with and that they
feel like are providing that

education and that connection
that they desperately feel like

they need,

and Joanie that they can afford.
Yeah, exactly.

I mean, most of us can't afford
to go to Erwan every day, sorry,

airwan, Whole Foods, all of
those places. I mean, the

reality is, is that the average
American is dependent on Walmart

for a large portion of their
caloric caloric intake every day

because of the reality of their
economics and discretionary

spending.

Although I do have to say, you
mentioned Walmart, yeah, Walmart

gets an incredibly bad rap in a
lot of ways. But I do need to

say, like, speaking from again,
back to produce, because we work

in specialty project gigatron
with Walmart has been, like,

humongously game changing, yeah.
And is the drive, frankly, for

more sustainably grown produce.
And we just don't see that

following in the middle of the
store, if I'm being honest, like

that's like, it's driving and so
project Giga Tron, what is it?

104 point checkpoint like that,
like, grower, grower, packer,

shippers and produce have to
comply with in order to be

eligible for purchase in the
produce section, they're

auditing social responsibility
with their farmers, water

management, AG, technology,
packaging, recyclable, like

recycling, like, I mean, it is,
it is on, it is very intense on

farm. It's also super intense in
the packing sheds. So like that

is a driver, and I just, I
wonder and hope, honestly, when

that is going to be the case for
CPG, so for that, and that is a

place where I don't know. I
don't know, based on private

label, how is private label
helping or hurting us? I think,

typically, it's hurting us. I
believe in de commoditization. I

think that, like I want
consumers to have more of an

understanding of the brands that
they do support. But okay,

you're we're talking a lot about
brands. So Joanie, who do you

think is responsible for
educating the public about how

to make food choices that align
with their values that they

maybe didn't even know about

that's a tough one, because I
think there's so many people in

so many organizations that
probably, like, inadvertently

contribute to the knowledge base
of customers, some of them being

big, like, really, like, kind of
off the radar. You wouldn't even

think it. But like, celebrity
influencers and whatnot, and

again, those are those things
that, like emerging brands,

cannot afford to access. But I
feel like a lot of the consumer

discovery around new diet
trends, new brands that are, you

know, maybe spotlighting super
sustainable ingredients. Often

the break comes when there's
somebody who's big and on stage

and has a lot of natural PR
whole discovers it. And you

know, I've been working for
years to try to get a celebrity

to just even back the plight of
like underutilized crops, like

millet, sorghum, there's a whole
slew of underutilized crops that

would you. Know, really make a
lot of sense to bring into our

food system in a more major way.
But I've yet to find a celebrity

who was interested in backing
something like that, because it

costs so much to to get their
time. So, you know, there's

brand. There's definitely been
brands that have been very

successful at harnessing that
influencer pool. And you know,

where we're, where most brands
are at are the micro

influencers, and they pull a lot
of weight. I feel like the whole

Snapchat world, the Institute,
Instagram and YouTube shorts, is

now kind of leading the charge
on disseminated, decentralized

marketing education at the
consumer level. Because, you

know, even though the big
celebrities, like, they get a

lot of the attention, like, I
feel like they make a splash,

and suddenly everyone's talking
about something. But you know,

these micro influencers can be
really, really powerful. And you

know, they can be you can have
an army of small scale

influencers that reach localized
or niche, focused demographics,

and they can really do a lot to
educate consumers and make it

not like a brand education
piece, because people are

suspicious of brand led
education sometimes, because

there's an ulterior motive.

Well, we're all trying to stay
in business, right? Yeah, yeah,

which I would argue is the same
for the farmers and like, that's

what kills me. Is it like there
are so many? I mean, the average

in California, the average farm
size is 470 acres, okay, nobody,

nobody is getting rich on 470
acres, even, unless you're

maybe, like, 10 years ago
growing cannabis illegally.

Like, let's be real. So, yeah, I
know what I mean. Like you, the

thing is, there there's no
succession planning. So, like,

that amount of acreage like, if
you have like, if you have like,

like, that's not enough money
for a family to live on. No, I

would imagine

a huge portion of those folks
probably have to have a one of

the adults on the you know in
the household have an outside

job to pull in benefits and a
stable salary? Well,

absolutely. And also it's really
sad because, like, and this is

something I do want to talk to
you about, because I am super

passionate about this, like, but
it's really sad because you have

families that are growing up in
this agriculture, like, culture.

They've, they've probably an FFA
or in 4h this is part of their

culture, and it's not really
going to be a viable option,

because, like, they will not be
able to afford a family, and

there's probably cousins and
whatnot. But I do have to say so

like, that pulls on my
heartstrings, because, you know,

I grew up a farm kid, and that's
a lot of that is part of that is

my community, yeah, right,
Legacy community, whatnot. And I

love it. It's not all of who I
am, obviously, but it is an

important part of who I am, so
but I just don't this is where I

think over and over and over
again, brands have gotten it

wrong, and marketing has gotten
it wrong is they are advertising

the farming lifestyle, like the
picture of like the, you know,

the video of, like the farmer
waking up before sunrise,

getting their coffee, walking in
their truck, like that is not

supposed that is not that is a
lovely story that is completely

out of touch for basically 98%
of like the country, like, let's

just speaking domestically, like
98% like, they're only like 2%

of people now are farmers. It
used to be like 50% like 100

years ago, yeah. So, like,
that's where, like, we cannot

market that lifestyle. What we
need to market is affordable

food grown by people who are
compensated fairly. And that's

like, that is where I can
continue to see like, brand just

get it wrong. Like, don't market
that story. Market like the

value and the integrity of the
food and not the lifestyle,

because that is where I just
think angry farmers are going to

get more and more angry. And
it's not helpful. It's not

helpful. It's not helpful to the
food system. Let's focus on,

like, doing whatever it takes to
get, like, to be paid fairly,

either through a call pool,
either through like, some sort

of standardization or whatnot,
so that you can continue to

actually produce the food. And,
I mean, in California, like,

there's, there's a wonderful
video that this video from, made

in Fresno, about, like,
literally, how, like, 100 like,

90% of them will just say 90% or
some crazy number of like, all

the stone fruit grown in the
country, all the citrus, is all

grown within 100 miles of
Fresno, California. And just

like, be like, because of water
legislation, like water

legislation and regulation and
whatnot. Just like, if that was

to be compromised, how many less
nutrients would be out in the

food system?

Yeah, it'd be significant.

Not like organically grown,
regeneratively grown,

conventionally grown, whatever.
It would just be significant.

And that's just where I think
there. Just such, like, I cannot

believe the amount of friction
between climate activists and

farming activists,

right? But you can't just not
eat. I mean, that's the whole

thing.

Consumers are like, Oh, screw
it. I'm just gonna get the

cheapest, like, whatever, you
know, and but it's like, Isn't

it sad? It is sad.

And I feel like so many of us
live in that weird divide right

there totally and I agree that
switching the focus on the

farmer as the hero, but not as
an archetype person as much. I

mean, we obviously love our
farmers and love who they are,

but what are they doing that
actually makes the food better

quality. It's not by them living
the lifestyle of being a farmer

that just automatically makes it
better. You know, I mean, like,

like, just because it's farmer
connected doesn't mean it's

better quality. But if your
farmer can articulate their

philosophy and the things that
they do to actually create a

better system that's going to
deliver more nutrition, that's

going to be more climate
resilient. That's going to be

more environmentally sound.
That's That's provocative,

because, again, for me, I get
very excited when I think about,

how can we add diversity of
value streams to farms, so that

bushels per acre, or whatever,
the metric of, you know, timber,

same thing, it's board feet per
acre, you know, the metric of

productivity of farmland
suddenly has a diversity to it

as well. So we've got the actual
productivity, which is yield,

but then we also have like,
productivity, which is like,

Hey, are you doing really good
nutrient management? Are you

reducing how much pollution is
going into the local water, you

know, table in the water system,
are you? Are you reducing

topsoil blow off and runoff,
which is also big time

environment, environmental thing
that actually can be very

costly, like when you look at
the cost of dredging waterways

to get all of that topsoil out
of the waterways, that is

actually a huge externalities
cost. I love thinking of the

farm economy as something more
complex than just. How many

bushels of wheat Did you
produce? Was it higher quality?

Did it have fewer synthetic
chemical residues on it? Does it

have a higher, you know,
phytonutrient profile, for

example, like, if you're growing
something that maybe you know.

And of course, I always default
to these oddball crops that I'm

obsessed with, like sorghum.
But, you know, you look at

sorghum, it's an inexpensive
commodity. It's mostly sold into

animal feed, but it actually has
phytonutrients that contribute

to really great gut health and
also in naturally high in

antioxidants. Some of the
species are comparable to

pomegranate and blueberries when
it comes to antioxidant

antioxidant concentrations, that
is something that is a point of

differentiation that could
eventually make the farming of

that crop more profitable,
because you're not just selling

empty carbohydrates anymore.
You're actually selling

something that has more layers
of value. And then we love

sorghum, because it doesn't need
a lot of irrigation, it needs

very few chemical inputs. It's
super climate resilient. So

there's a lot of wins there.
Those are the things we don't

hear about. And the farmers that
we work with that are doing this

kind of innovation at the field
level. They get really excited

about that. And I love what you
said. It's really about how that

affects food, that affects food
quality, that actually makes for

a healthier population of
Americans when we're consuming

those foods. Now, how do we make
it more affordable? Back to

Walmart. God bless Walmart. On
some things I tell you. I know

they get a lot of a lot of flack
from the regenerative and from

like some of the better for you
communities. But you know,

during the whole entire UN year
of millets, the United Nations

had a big year where would they
talked about millet, sorghum and

these crops and how important
they are. The only retailer in

the world who called me to ask
me how they could participate

and get involved with millet and
sorghum and things was Walmart.

Nobody else I tried to. I
challenged Whole Foods, I

challenged sprouts, I challenged
all of them. Nobody would talk

to me about it. Nobody cared.
Walmart makes it for and reaches

out and says, we want to, we
want to learn more from

a sustainability person like,
who called you from Walmart. I'm

just curious. Like, like,
department wise, like, that.

We're in the where in the echo
chamber is

that, you know, they were, they
were in more of the mid

executive layer of management,
and it was a brand, um, I'm

still not 100% clear what their
roles were, which is

interesting. They weren't
buyers. Okay, so there's a

disconnect. It signals to me,
there's a major disconnect

between the narrative at the
buyer level, which are the

gatekeepers of the American
retail system, and what's

happening up in the executive
and middle management level,

where they're like, Wait, why
aren't we doing this? Why aren't

we working with brands that are
doing, you know, working with

farmers that are growing these
foods. And again. It just is

reflective of an overly
consolidated, hierarchical

system that controls our food
system that doesn't respond to

consumer pressure and
environmental pressure and

nutritional pressure as quickly
as it probably should.

Yeah. Well, I think that's
really interesting.

Isn't that fascinating? I know I
was like, you know, I, I'd love

to talk to Whole Foods, um,
executive leadership about that

someday, because I, you know,
not to be rude. I'd like to take

them to task on it, right,

right? Well, I think that. But
we just like, I always go back

to who's like, again, if farmers
are only compensated on yield,

no, but it's also, but it's also
like, I know, but it's also

like, I think there's so much
fatigue in so many ways because

legislate like, there's so many
regulatory changes that have

happened over the Last 10 to 15
so, like, the baby boomer

farmers are exhausted, like,
exhausted. They're like, I just

can't like, this is all just
become like, it feels like,

whack a mole a little bit. I

feel like they've lost hope in
change.

I mean, I'm, I'm like, related
to a lot of those kind of

people, right? Um, and so, like,
I should be careful. Like, how

much I talk about it honestly at
home, because, like, I It's

like, you kind of, like, respect
the hard, mean, it's been like,

you know, 50 years of like, the
grind.

Farmers, no food gets that, that
farming is more like it's like,

in a way, it should be treated
more like a utility, like health

care or electricity or municipal
water and roads like it is

something that is essential to
the fabric of our national

security and our optimal opera
up, you know, operating systems

as a nation in our GDP, but We
treat it as like just this kind

of extraction pool, and
unfortunately, by treating it as

just an extraction pool, we're
setting it up to be undervalued,

demoralized and going extinct,
which is exactly what we're

seeing given the fact that that
you know, average age of farmers

in America is like 58 to 62 with
No succession plan, as you said,

because they're not economically
viable, and that is a national

security issue, and I cannot
believe we're not treating it as

such. That's, well,

you know, there's, I really
follow closely what Beth Ford,

the CEO of Land O Lakes, the Big
Co Op, kind of, some of her

moves, that is often what she
that is her talk main talking.

That's, I mean, her stump
speech. But like that is, like

food security is national.
National security is what she

continues to preach on. And I
think there's definitely

something there. Maybe I could
have her on

the show someday. She's amazing.
We know her. I

would listen to that. I do not
know her. I have friends that

know her. But no, she is. She's
just an amazing game changer for

them.

That is cool. It's just there's
so many layers. But honestly,

your work, Allie, and you know
where you sit in the position of

brand development, messaging,
marketing, advertising is

something that is actually
incredibly influential right

now, and especially, I think,
where we're at right now, just

culturally, there's this shift
in, like, the trust level of

marketing advertising, access to
information, etc. Like, what do

you think that your role is in
this marketing capacity to help

shape the future you want to see
for the farming community

and the food system?

I think the pivotal role that
Noble's playing, that I'm really

proud of, is providing more
access to information about

consumer insights to farmers,
particularly farmers who are row

cropping, so they can make
change, they can quickly pivot

based on because there's, it's
open, it's open, you know, it's

open, like, land versus
permanent crops, like, like

vines and trees and whatnot.
Like, obviously, we can't pivot

quickly on that those are like
20 to 30 year investments, but I

think that having more insights,
and I'm even seeing like how and

that that comes from pretty
progressive grower, packer,

shippers, providing information,
working with their retailers

under State, sharing out
informations on commodity

pricing and all like, whatever
that is. I think that's like a

place that we can really play a
part in. And I love doing. I do

think also just we champion hero
food ingredients. So if, excuse

me, if a, if a food product.
Project is three or less, like

food ingredients. They are
perfect, noble West potential

customer, because how the food
is grown, how it was processed

by whom, and with what's with,
with, with whatever kind of

value system that they're
utilizing. That is a place where

I think that we could really
tell that story. And then also

just really progressive, like
creative, that's the other thing

is, like, really creative,
aggressive, audacious, beautiful

artwork, because that is
something that has not typically

been in the ag industry, right?
And then really sophisticated

media planning. And I just like,
It still blows my mind that

especially seasonal crops, like
the perishables, I just that

there are not better campaigns
around the seasonality, and

literally, like, blows my mind,
and that's something I would

just like to see change. Like,
there should be no question that

an average consumer who is like
going to the grocery store that

is like middle like, I just want
to say like middle class, right,

like, just the normal folk,
right? They should know when the

start and stop of the California
chariot season is, and they

should be running to the grocery
store between, like the middle

of the beginning of April to
like the end of May, because

they are getting local, amazing
cherries, right? There should be

no question. It's a whole
different experience. And if

that was the case, I think sugar
consumption would go down so

many things right? And then it's
like, and then comes like June

and like, the average consumer
should know that now it is

Washington cherry season. And
then once we get through the

middle or beginning of August,
cherry season is now over. So

now we need to think about what
fruits and veggies do we eat in

the fall, you know? And that is
a thing where I just feel like

it's so critical that that is
really highly and I just think

the assumption that, like people
know, is part of it, and that is

where I think, like seasonal and
like creative campaigns around

food, to highlight that is so
critical. Let's like, make it

more fun. Like, there's a reason
why. Like, sugar cereal is fun.

The advertising is fun. They
make it fun to eat. I mean, I

mean, you know, we both have
kids like, Oh my God. My kids

are like, Can I get a treat? We
want to treat cereal. Can we get

a treat cereal? And it's like,
you know, and now I, like, break

down in the summer. I'm like,
Okay, you can have summer cereal

because there's, like, sugar
and, like, at least, I know, you

know, crashing in the middle of
the

school day. But, like, so for
parents in that way, but I

it is so and it is Jody. It is
so hard, but that's where it's

like, it's not highlighted.
There is a brand that I just

everybody should follow, because
how they're approaching it is in

and it's because they are not
local grower, packer, shippers.

Frankly, they are. They're using
outsourced marketing with really

sophisticated agencies. But sumo
citrus, it's a very expensive

piece of citrus. It's a six like
Joanie, it's a $6 orange. Let's

be real.

I've been watching that, and
it's been trending. It

is trending is because they
really lean and it is out. The

other thing is, it's outside.
It's outside thinkers who are

driving these campaigns. It is
not coming from the inside outs

or from the outside in, which is
how I staff noble West, frankly,

like the majority of my team,
not everybody, but the majority

of my team has come from the
entertainment industry, because

I want outside thinking, right?
Don't like I, I'm, I think I

just know that I am not your
average gal, right, like most

people. Well, yeah, but I mean,
like, you know, I grew up in the

farm, and then I left and went
to New York City for 15 years

and chose to come back because I
wanted to bring all my skills to

this industry. That's not
normal, right? So, but that's

where, like, we've brought so
many like, that's where, like,

the creative team is, like,
lives in LA and is super

creative. But that takes, it's
going to take that outside

thinking in order to make
changes on the inside of the ag

industry. I

totally agree with you, because
I feel like if you've grown up

in that it you don't see that
sexiness, like it just, it's

like it's part of your
seasonality, or it's part of

your job, or it's, it's and if
you're really looking to

differentiate and to bring in
more of that sexy I can hear

that typing Allie was super
loud. So if you're looking to

like really differentiate and
make something super sexy, it's

it's amazing what bringing
somebody from the outside can

do, because it helps you see
what's special in it. And I

remember. Like, I grew up in
Western Oregon, we had kind of

a, you know, not a subsistence
lifestyle, but, I mean, we

literally lived on salmon we
caught ourselves and venison we

harvested ourselves. We had
cattle. So beef was grown on our

farm. We had chickens, we had
eggs like, you know, like we'd

can our own green beans, we'd
freeze our own corn, like that

was just part of our life, and
it was a lot of work. So we

hated it. When we were kids, we
were like, oh my god, this is

like, slave labor. Like, we were
like, This is not cool. Like, we

can't go do the things with the
other kids, because we're like,

busy weeding the garden and
canning. But when our friends

would come over and they would
sit down, and my mom would serve

them, like, green beans, for
example, fresh cut, frozen sweet

corn that we had frozen
ourselves and it was grown in

our garden, they would like rant
and rave about how amazing the

corn was. It's corn. I mean,
it's corn, like, there's corn,

is corn, but it was like that
little kid, you know, that's

like, that it's got the juice,
like, he goes crazy over the

corn. It's amazing how seeing
the response from somebody from

the outside taste something for
the first time, it inspires you

to actually rediscover why it's
amazing and special. You know,

like, we would be like, salmon
again. Are you kidding? Like, if

I king salmon again, I'm gonna
be angry. Can we just have

burgers at McDonald's,

like all the other you know what
I mean, when, like, freshpacking

Salmon.

I can't believe we were like,
uh, salmon again, you know? But

right? It's kind of funny. And
when we lived in Alaska, it was

the same way, when you invite
people over for dinner in

Alaska, they're like, as long as
you promise you're not serving

salmon or halibut, we'll be
there. Because it's like, you

just get you get used to it. But
again, I think Alaskan salmon,

there's a lot we can learn from
Alaskan salmon and how it

differentiated itself. And look
at the Copper River fishing

fleet and how they
differentiated Copper River

salmon against other fisheries
like Bristol Bay, and they have

effectively captured not only a
premium, but like a FOMO

phenomenon, where everyone lines
up and waits for the very first

Copper River salmon openers to
bring in the fish to the Port of

Seattle. And that is effective
marketing. And when I lived in

Cordova in the early 2000s I got
to spend a lot of time with

people who were developing the
marketing around that Copper

River salmon phenomenon. And it
reminded me of what I'd heard

growing up on the Oregon coast
with the Tillamook folks. I grew

up with the Tillamook kids and
the Tillamook farmers and

dairymen, and in the 80s, that
was a very tough time, timber,

fishing and farming collapsed in
our communities all in the same

decade. It was a decimated us
economically. And Tillamook was

really smart, because they said,
look, we've got a really special

thing going here. We've never
allowed antibiotics in our milk

because we use a special, you
know, culture for our cheese,

and we've always tested for
that, but we never talked about

it. You know, everyone's had
these quality standards, but we

never talked about it, because
it was just what we did. And

somebody really smart, and I'd
like to find out who, and shake

their hand, they have turned
Tillamook into a Goliath in our

in, you know, regionally, that
it still operates at a unit

economic efficiency. I still
know a lot of the dairymen. I

mean, they're, you know, my
friends and family, dairy

people, yeah, dairy people. I
mean, they're, they call

themselves the dairy men, even
when they're women, like, it's

old school Oregon, you know,
just like the Dory men are the

dorymen, even though a lot of
them are Dory women that go out

and fish, um, it's just it's so
old school and I, and I love

that old school because I'm from
it. But you know, when I think

about how they successfully made
what they did sexy, it changed

the whole market. It actually
gave them a competitive

advantage that other people
couldn't compete against, and it

saved them from obsolescence.
And the amazing thing is, they

grouped together. They like
aggregated. They created a

collaborative experience under
that brand banner. Well, also

that

they they shared resources. In
this case, you shared, like

commodity marketing, okay, but I
think that shoni, you bring up

the point of something that I've
been really kind of noodling on,

which is, do we give farmers the
benefit of the doubt that they

are doing a good job? Or we do?
We just assume that they're not?

I think, I think the consumer
assumes that they're not. Yeah,

and it's really an incredible
thing to be able to elevate what

they're doing, right? Because
they're doing so many great

things, it just never gets told.
The story never gets told.

And I'm going to tell you why,
because real, like legitimate,

like traditional farmers, they
are going into farming because

they are quiet, they are
hardworking. They don't, they

don't need, like, they're not
looking for accolades. Like,

that is a traditional under the
radar farmer, and there are some

exceptions. And like, Thank
goodness for those exceptions.

Like, you know, like a banina
Montes from Burroughs family

farm. Thank goodness for her.
Like, she is championing. I get,

like, but she, but, like,

a banina is like, she's
naturally has that affinity,

like,

working on this almond this
morning.

This is an amazing go to the
farm day, if you ever can, it's

amazing. And then you can just
stay at my house So, but, like,

that's like a different that's
like a different experience,

right? Like, you have somebody
who has a natural affinity to

tell a story and it feels
comfortable communicating in

that that is her, but then
that's not everybody in her

family. That's what they are. So
blessed in that way. Now most,

if not all, farmers are just
like, I just want to grow the

food. I went into farming
because I want to work hard. I

want to work the land. I mean,
like, my husband, literally, he

could go, he his best week would
be if nobody called him on the

phone, and he could just work
totally, yeah. I mean, like,

it's just, I'm just gonna weld
and I'm going to grow things,

and I'm going to check the
water, I'm going to get the

indication, and I am just going
to do my thing with you guys,

and we're going to just have a
great week. First, you know, he

doesn't want to talk to a
reporter,

yeah, take pictures. It's so
true. And you know that

underpinning of this exact thing
you're talking about is its

culture, and I think it's where
there's a huge opportunity to

shift the paradigm. And one of
the things that we've been

working on in the snacktivist
camp is with a business model

that we're partnering with at
scale, value chain, you know,

processing people. If we
challenge brands they're doing

really high quality procurement.
They're working with farmers and

farm, you know, commodities,
crops, ingredients that are

better and we challenge to get
their marketing departments

involved with procurement. Like,
those are the things you have to

be like. They're blind spots
that could be a major problem.

You know what I mean? Like as we
really work to kind of dig, dig,

dig and find new ways. Like, I
don't like anything that

restricts free markets, to be
honest. That's my personal

political belief. I am a fan of
distributed, accessible free

markets, and I don't see enough
of that in agriculture, you

know, I mean, and especially in
the big row cropping worlds, I

think it's better in specialty
crops, like, there's a lot more

access, but, yeah, like, but,
you know, when you're dealing

there's

more it's because you don't need
big meals. That's the other part

of it. You pick the

peaches and you put them in a
box and they go to market. You

know?

Well, it's not quite that
simple. What videos to prove,

videos, videos to prove that

middle they don't have to be
clean, they don't have to be

baked,

nope, nope, nope, nope. That's
not all true. If a crop is field

packed, then it can be field
packed, and then go straight to

market. So like in my family
business now, all of the melons

that are grown are actually
field pack boxes. Go to the

field. They are hand packed, and
then they go to and then they're

sold directly. They go to get
chilled in the in the in the

cold, in the cold storage, and
then they go to get shipped from

a shipping dunk, but in not, I
don't even want to say the olden

days, because, like, when I was
a child, so like, 25 years even,

like 20 years ago, yeah, 20
years ago, the melons were pet,

weren't picked, and they were
loaded in trailers, and then

They went to the package that
they were washed, they were

bathed, like they were dried, or
like they were tried, and then

they were packed in a package.
So because I worked in the bin,

I worked at the package, yeah,
15 years of my childhood. So all

the jobs, all the jobs, except
for packing. So, yeah, but it

can

be consumed without that wheat.
Can't dare, I mean, like, well,

that's what I'm saying.

That's what I'm saying. Your
average grower does not have

what, $25 million to build like
a mill, no, and they're not

gonna, it's just that. But
that's, again, why Co Op

started. That's why, like,
that's why mills are getting

bigger. That's why the little
guys are getting squeezed out.

And that's just how it's going.
I

know, isn't it wild? So we're
gonna have to do a part two to

keep unpacking this. And I know
you and I need to just get

together and put our heads
together as we're, you know,

like, like, snack device
considers itself to be an

innovation company. So we're
like, let's try this. Let's,

let's see if this works. We have
the beauty of being smaller, so

we can try things and actually
say, honestly, we're going to

try this and see if it works.
And then have that feedback loop

to the farmers so that we're
like. Farmers. Did this work out

well for you or not Co Op that
we're that we partner with Co

Op? Did this work well for you
guys or not? I can't store

millions of pounds of stuff, but
they can, but they don't

necessarily have access to the
brands that want differentiated,

you know, ingredients. So like,
there's some collaborative

models that are coming along
that I think have great power to

help preserve that into, you
know, IP story, that humanized

story and help us deliver higher
quality foods to the market with

story. But we need storytellers.
We need the noble Wests of the

world. We need the alleys that
can help us understand how to

tell a provocative story that's
meaningful to modern consumers.

So I'm so

happy though, there's the story,
there's the creative, but

there's also the media planning,
there's also the advertising, my

gosh, and that's a science that
is, that's a whole nother thing

we need to talk about. And that
is way, that's where that is,

like, the most absolutely
critical

part of it. Know what? We should
literally just do a session just

on that. And honestly, I don't
know much about that, because

I've never had the budgets to
participate in those realms,

like the advertising and paid
media realms, and I would love

to get educated on how I know
it's technical. I know it's

actually a science and an art at
the same time. Yeah, I would

love for you to educate me and
our listeners on, like, really

what that represents and how
powerful that is for the food

system,

absolutely.

So we'll do that next time. Ali,
absolutely, who want to get in

touch with you and follow your
work? Where? How do they do

that? Where

do they go? You could go to we
are noblewest.com and drop an

email in the comments. You also
could find me on LinkedIn. I

spent quite a bit of time there,
and I'm Allie Cox, a, l, I, C,

O,

X, awesome. We will drop those
in the show notes. And I this is

a fun conversation, because,
again, we're just going there.

We're pushing those boundaries
where we're brainstorming.

Heaven forbid I love that we
don't. We need more of that in

America today. So free thinking,
Yeah, and just going for it. And

so to our listeners, if you
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conversations, you loved this
conversation, please share with

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world, and thank you so much for
listening today, and we'll see

you next time this

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