Regenerative by Design

Hello everyone, you are
listening to the regenerative by

design podcast where we will be
getting to the root of health,

climate, economics and food. I
am your host, Joanie Kenmore.

Join me on this journey as we
explore the stories of

individuals and organizations
who are working to realign our

food system with both human
health and the health of our

planet.

Welcome everybody to the
regenerative by design Podcast.

I'm Joanie, your host, and I am
super thrilled with our guest

today, Carter Williams, if you
don't follow his work, he's one

of the more fascinating people
that is out there really driving

culture and conversation shift
in the world of regenerative

food systems, finance and the
interface with healthcare. So,

welcome, Carter,

thank you for having me.

I have to say I marvel at the
things that you do and the

energy that you put into all of
your work. And I would love for

you to just have the opportunity
to tell our audience a little

bit about your work today and
what your current projects are I

select fund and your various
like communities that you're

building on WhatsApp and
LinkedIn and beyond.

Yeah, so we are I, I, I'm part
of the I select team I select as

a venture capital firm we are
focused are in and around the

area of a topic that we call
food is health. And they the

macro perspective on that is we
spend 1.7 trillion on food in

the United States, we spend 1.9
trillion on the health care cost

of poor nutrition in the United
States. So the thing is, is not

helping us with the health care
cost. That number is 14 trillion

globally. So it's not just a US
thing. And so we invest in ag

tech and health tech, that both
work to solve what we might most

likely call metabolic disease,
type two diabetes and related

issues in cardiac cardiology,
cardiovascular disease and

Alzheimer's. I pretty deep tech
investors in that. So on the Ag

tech side, we invest in
everything from soil health up

through ingredients, and
genetics and microbiome and all

the geeky things. So one might
talk about the healthcare side,

it's similar in terms of
therapeutics and data analysis

such or driving the overall is,
is big work connecting there

many people who just worry about
ag tech, there's some people

just worry about health tech,
and there's some people just

worried about Foodtech. Our
general perspective is that the

ag industry has been, you know,
for whatever, however many years

is a commodity food system that
there are different layers, and

that that may be focused on how
do you get corn to market and

soy, we, we really start to see
a shift in which the consumer

says I want to eat healthier, I
want to go to the grocery store.

And I wanted to be sort of easy
for me to make the right

choices. Yes, you want at the
grocery store to say we got

consumers that want the right
choices available to them. So

suppliers you need to, you need
to think more about the

nutritional quality of what
you're doing. And you got to

make it affordable. And then we
want Nestle to sort of reach

back into the supply chain, say,
well, we maybe have pizza, but

we want it to be better wheat.
And and so all sudden you're

connecting the dots from the
consumer. And really, as you

continue through that evolution,
and this is how we think about

it. You continue through that
evolution all the way back to

the soil,

that energy and the genetics.
And so

all those little things, all
those strings, where we've

optimized that to say who's the
best person at crushing corn and

soy now? And how do we make sure
that this oil and corn and other

wheat and and other crops that
come through the system have got

nutritional density? So to do to
do that you really got a, what

you find is that there are
entrepreneurs in each segment of

that industry who are as crazy
as you and I are. And they're

alone. They're there in their
area saying I see this thing

happening. And so what we
started to do is we created some

online communities on WhatsApp.
We've tried a bunch of different

things, but for some reason
WhatsApp sort of works. And

we've created some subgroups.
And there are, you know, one

around farmers who are early
adopters. Another one around

food is health. And that sort of
spurred a group there's a little

bit more understanding climate
and so we've got a few different

groups there that really
represent Yes, you do other

other people who see an
opportunity here And they're all

trying to sort of figure out how
to run a business in conjunction

with Enoch forward. And so we,
and

diverse thinking, I mean, as
someone who is part of these

groups and thoroughly enjoys
them, it's a very interesting

Think Tank approach, where you
literally have ideas coming in

from all over the place. And
they get like hashed through

this engine where people can
ping in and talk. And I feel

like it's really simple. Like,
sometimes things get definitely

very passionate and heated. But
because everybody's aligned with

the big vision of what is trying
to be achieved here, which is,

you know, reuniting the
community around this switch

from just an efficiency driven
system to an effective system,

and all the different things
that are needed to make that

realignment occur. And I'm
really impressed with how it's

come together. It's a very
exciting group. And I'm just

appreciative of the work that
you guys are putting into that

to facilitate that community.

We have no idea why it works.

It's great. It's a really great
community, saying

that it's hard. From the
background on this, it's hard to

understand whether it's during
the right direction, I think

it's it's a quality of folks.
And we do do one other thing, a

couple of things we do do is we
sort of like Who else should be

on this call. I use a little bit
of our leverage to draw in other

people who, who normally
wouldn't be part of the

conversation. I'm always
thinking of who else we can add

to that who will add and
contribute and you really can't,

can't be on there unless you
want to participate.

Right. And, you know, I was just
at a braid conference earlier

this week. And it was a
fantastic group of folks very

much Northwest. oriented. And I
don't think there's a whole lot

of participation from the
Pacific Northwest and those

groups, there's a few that I've
connected with, because they

were like, Oh, hey, you're here,
too. And, um, but it made me

realize there's like a whole
group of really leading edge

farmers that I work with
extensively here in the in the

Inland Northwest, that would be
really awesome to add to that

group. So make that happen.
Yeah, there. And I think out

here in the Northwest, just like
you said, I think one of the

biggest pain points and why this
is a fantastic community is that

there are so many people
innovating but they're like, out

in their silos literally. And
when you're dealing with people

in, in, in ag, you're dealing
with rural populations in

general. And they're they're
kind of used to like operating

out there a little bit lone wolf
style, because it's the nature

of, of agriculture and ranching.
And so to give those folks an

avenue to come into an ecosystem
that's more connected and have

that framework for sharing
information is actually really

powerful. And I think that
that's one of the reasons that

people are responding so well to
it.

Yeah, we were on I, this
morning, I don't know if you're

tracking this morning, but we
had a little bit of conversation

that then we were like, Hey, we
should get on the Zoom. And so

then we had a zoom and saw that
it was on the Zoom. And one guy,

one guy was like, Oh, I'm gonna
second I got I got to deal with

a diesel. And he was he was
loading the diesel on the

tractor and firing up the
tractor while we were having a

zoom, had to rethink the
adoption cycle in agriculture.

And that's just the way we roll.
i It's like, we don't have to

all be sitting in a room and do
this. And they're their people.

Yeah. But having some of those
ad hoc conversations has been

helpful in terms of digging at
something and you know, online,

only go so far, and we're pretty
active about trying to fire

people up on a phone just to
talk through, get better.

Well, you know, certainly one of
the pain points that is palpable

amongst rural people in general,
but especially, we're all people

who are involved with any
natural resource extraction

industry. So like, whether that
be fishing, farming, timber,

even mining. You know, there's,
there's this interesting

cultural divide that has always
existed. I grew up in a very

rural community, and I still
live in a somewhat rural

community. So I'm up against
this a lot where I feel like,

like our people, I say that like
rather loosely, but you know,

the rural population often feels
like nobody really wants to hear

what we have to say. And often,
bro, people can have a

reputation of being a little bit
more quiet and not as intrusive

into conversations. And so I
feel like this is a really

fascinating opportunity to bring
people who are often not heard

into a situation where they feel
safe to speak and share what

they're thinking. What are your
thoughts on that?

Yeah, so we're actually i The
environment is fascinating from

a standpoint like we're talking
about food is health and so when

we're talking about food itself,
we're thinking about improving

people's health care and
wellness. And in In so doing,

we're also realizing that
there's a Nexus going on local

regional health care systems and
many of the things are are

stumbling by locals food supply
chains in terms of speed For the

food is a little bit of a topic
that's come up that that we have

a bit more in our, in the groups
and, and some more focus a

little bit more Roycroft
focused. Yeah, specialty, we've

got some tree fruit. So we've
got a few a little bit of

representation at a Yakama i But
I'd say most dominantly row crop

and and I one of the other
conversation starters show up

more on the healthcare side of
the equation is that the the

rural systems are a little
stumbly. So now there's a lot of

work through Aaron Martin's work
at at some of the prescription

produce prescription programs in
Oklahoma. Could we can we engage

the regional healthcare systems
who are trying to address

metabolic error? Can we address
the regenerative farmers who are

starting to change their
practices? And then is there a

way to sort of actually bring in
a little bit more local fresh

specialty, that area and then
nexus of information flowing

around?

It's and that's really
important. There's

that community as a whole cares
about the community. There's

enough ability to each other I
think everywhere else people

care about the community, but
but in some more regional and

more rural areas. It's easier to
get to know your neighbor and

and kind of connectivity. So
it's an interesting incubation

area for what's happening. It

is and a few things when it
comes to the health system

interface in rural communities
is that what is markedly

different is having worked in
critical access hospitals and

towns that were under 5000
people and also in like bigger,

you know, hospitals and larger
communities. I've worked I've

worked in both and I went to
nursing school to a nursing

school that had a focus on rural
healthcare system development,

specifically for diet related
disease. Binghamton University

in upstate New York has a
program focused on that. And so

yeah, yeah, so that's why I went
there. I moved there from

Alaska, I was living in
Fairbanks. And I moved all the

way to upstate New York to go
specifically to this program

because of their rural health
delivery system focus. Because

I've been working in NIH and
remote community health dynamics

and learned a lot, especially
when I was part of the Montana

hypertension coalition. When I
was working in rural Montana, we

had a statewide initiative to
try to figure out how the rural

health care providers across the
state could come together to

create accessible and equitable
programs for for for diet to

access because in these tiny
communities, their food deserts,

there's literally not access to
fresh food, especially at this

time, this was like in 2008. And
so I was frontlines on the very

first waves of GLP, one agonist
type drugs, and pharmacists 2008

to 2012. And so, there was a lot
of really interesting research

coming out, because at that
time, we started seeing true

clinical studies that were
proving that pre diabetes could

indeed be reversed. And when we
did the economic mapping of what

that actually did to the GDP of
a state like Montana, where if

you can keep people who are pre
diabetic from developing full

blown diabetes, in especially in
rural communities where they

don't have access to diabetes,
education, clinics, and food,

etc. It was actually such a
financially big deal that the

state got behind it and said,
we've got to do something about

this. I ended up at that time
moving to Alaska, so I didn't

follow where the project went.
But what you guys are talking

about in that specific foodist
health Whatsapp group with Aaron

Martin and her fantastic work at
roots. Our X actually had her on

the podcast two years ago, or
two and a half years ago. So

we're gonna have her filter over
them. Yeah, yeah. So I had her

on and I think it was, I
couldn't find very many podcasts

of her at the time, but as
somebody who's an RN, and worked

in public health, and also was
an ethno pharmacologist, so my

whole work and my first career
was studying how the

phytonutrients in food and
medicinal plants affect, you

know, disease, human health. So,
it you know, I fell in love with

her work, the minute I heard
about her and learned about her,

and because it's so spot on, and
it's literally why I left

nursing, and founded a food
company and an ag innovation

company and a tech company,
because if we don't realign Food

and Ag with human health and
climate outcomes, the healthcare

system will implode and I saw
that at the bedside. I mean, I

was ICU nurse for a long time.
My husband was an ER trauma

nurse for 20 years. And, you
know, went through COVID. And he

ended up leaving and joining me
on the frontlines of

regenerative food system
transformation among other

health care providers that we
worked with for a long time. So

it's just it's just fascinating
that you guys are really, you

know, stirring the pot and
bringing in the right people

that are needed to get this to
the next level. There's so much

siloed conversation amongst
healthcare Are people amongst

food people amongst farmers and
ag people, but getting everybody

together? So we can create an
ecosystem that's focused on the

same goal. That's where where
the work is gonna get done? Why

do you think we get them
engaging more with each other? I

mean, are they online groups
who've got, or maybe touched

about 200, people all told a few
different groups. But once more

overlap, and they, what's your
sense of how to get a broad

array of people to see the art
of the possible? You know,

what's been fascinating in the
last few months, has been these

conversations about mainstream
media, and capturing a lot of

the thought leadership
conversations and work that's

happening out there in the
trenches, and putting it in a

media forum, that that gets mass
exposure and adoption, like even

like NatGeo, or even YouTube,
Netflix, things like that, where

suddenly people who are curious,
and they're sitting in an area

where they don't feel like they
have a connection to food or

health or anything, maybe they
work in a totally different

industry, and they work, they
live in an apartment in downtown

Dallas, Houston, you know, and
they just feel like, they don't

feel like they have a place of
interface. That's where more

mainstream media movies etc, can
really be, I think catalyzing to

people who feel disconnected,
and give them a way to start to

feel like they can be
participants rather than outside

of the system where you feel
like you have no control. That's

just one thought.

And you've got a bit of a hike
in front of us. Um, one of the

things I recently testified to
the US Senate on this topic, and

one of the things that we're
trying to do there is say that

there is an array of companies
coming forward, they're filling

in the blanks, the notion that
and you, you see elements of

this, so I, a few grocery chains
are starting to sell GLP one,

which is a to some degree, like,
do we want people on ozempic? Or

don't we? There's a little
wobbly as to whether that's

exactly the right answer. But
But if someone's got a BMI of

35, or an agency of seven or
eight, it's a logical

risk versus benefits equation.
And it all comes down to that,

right. But

then you start thinking is like,
okay, for talking really, this

is a nutritionally related
disease is, you know, health

care doctors that I talked to
have a total of somewhere

between 45 minutes 10 hours of
training and nutrition. Yeah.

But there's this expectation
that I'm gonna go to my doctor,

and they're gonna be on top of
it. And whereas if we start

thinking that there's something
closer to the grocery, that,

that you can touch, and maybe
get some clinical care at the

same time in some fashion, but
then around a fashion that you

you mainstream yourself back
into a better, better nutrition.

There's a lot of fascinating
opportunity there. I mean, if

you think go to the big numbers,
it's 1.7 trillion on food in the

US 1.9 trillion on the health
care costs of poor nutrition. So

sad. These are massive markets
that yeah,

that's like an insane amount of
money. That's an insane amount

of money or

dream excitement around it that
AI does. And yeah, and I, and I

think it is getting there. Mm
hmm. I think it's, it's the

notion that I want to live
longer, and I want AI both seem

like and the list of like, these
are things that make life more

enjoyable, perhaps. Yes. And so
we are starting to see the

energy move in that direction.
At the same time, the venture

market is awful right now, the
broader have collapse, because

for the most part, external
reasons, and interest rates went

up, that causes bonds to change
that causes capital allocators

to change. So something
completely unrelated right to be

here. And so it's also a
fascinating period, from the

standpoint that smart startups
are working hard and can't get

capital. And so there's an
interesting arm salutely, where,

if we all stick with it, we have
a choice, we can stick with it

and push forward and have the
strongest ones push on the other

side with a new approach, or we
could stumble and euthanize some

of these startups and have
nothing it's aI best of times

worst of times there but it's it
is utterly clear to me that the

momentum towards food is health
is momentum. It's it's not gonna

reverse. Yeah, many good people
involved like yourself, then

involved in this. It's

It's true momentum. I mean, the
shift is definitely happening.

And I see it as an entrepreneur
that's, you know, been living

through this crazy financial
period ever since the COVID. Hit

And you know what the bad thing
is, is a lot of great startups

and great innovators will go
dark, unfortunately. But on the

upside, for me personally, the
business models that I had

proposed in 2019, like for
sectors of this, for example,

because an activist is totally
focused on realignment of food

and egg systems with human
health and climate outcomes,

specifically in drought and heat
resistant crops, and all the way

down to the germ plasm, like
full, full transparency, in

2019, when I brought that
business model up to people, and

mentioned like I wanted full
transparency delivered by

blockchain, I got laughed out of
rooms, people were like, No way,

no how go start a brand. I mean,
that's what moms do anyways,

like, you kind of have
permission to start a food brand

if you're a mom. And, and, you
know, like, in a way, I'm almost

grateful that now we have a
financial environment that is

actually listening to truly
innovative business plans,

again, instead of just expecting
you to do the status quo,

because that's what's been
working for the last decade.

Because finally, people are
really excited about my original

sacrafice business plan. So
we've been able to put the

branded stuff on the side burner
and go way back. And now we're

working with farmers to grow
germplasm for crops that have

like insane medicinal
properties. And it's built right

into the food. And we're
commercializing those, those,

you know, underutilized crops
all the way through the value

chain, and then providing
innovation and support on the

market end. And I'm just hoping
that the financial market perks

up enough to start supporting
companies like an activist in

doing that, but I feel like
finally, because of this

disruptive event that's hit the
financial markets people are,

are actually listening to
innovative business models,

where before they were like, no,
no, no, don't try to do

something new. Just do what
already works, start a brand, go

sell it, make some money, and
then you'll have the money to

finance this crazy, experimental
disruptive company you're

talking about. So in a way, I'm
grateful, I guess, even though

it's been rough,

it's a next kind of thing that
we got to fiddle with is, is

start to shift some of the
insurance models, I think that

the Yes, lifestyle medicine work
and the work that's been done up

by the college lifestyle
medicine to sort of shift the

care delivery model from that
side. And then on the other

side, you have people like
Aaron, who really driving

produce prescription. We should,
I'm not in love, frankly, with

sort of medical tailored meals
from a standpoint of let's

create a new subsidy for that
kind of stuff. But it makes

sense for many people to get
better access that way. And so

we're gonna Yeah, we're gonna
have some chips. It's

kind of meeting people where
they're at, I think, because

that's a delivery system that
can like, kind of give them a

gateway drug to better food and
in eating in a way that they

never would have done before.
Because the barriers to train it

would have been too high.

Stage and innovations can be
like, if that comes online and

some fashion is that would then
become the new prescription

orders that a new is, is there
an off ramp to a more

traditional food system? And so
I think we'll see some shifts

going on. But I do think that
the, you know, when I talk to

health care providers that the
like hospitalists, they're

they're seeing a higher and
higher incidence of people

coming in with quorum abilities.
Yeah. And not having the

capacity. So like, if someone's
in for cancer treatment, and

then the dominant issue is not
the cancer, but their diabetes,

it becomes very difficult for
the care provider who might be

an expert in Oh, yeah.

So and it's a length of stay
issue as well, which again,

insurance companies are really
focused on. So, um, you know, as

somebody who literally has been
at the bedside going, Wow, this

could have been a fairly simple
procedure, and a fairly simple

plan of care. But because we're
managing the comorbidities,

that's why this patient is in
the ICU for six weeks. And our

ICUs across the country are full
of those folks. Because of

chronic renal failure secondary
to chronic diabetes and high

blood pressure. Like there's so
many levels of the comorbidities

and, and how that affects like
the state is a very documented

financial hit to our healthcare
system. I mean, I just I call

our our health care system, the
palliative care unit have our

diets. I mean, it's what it is.
And we're really good at

treating trauma. We're really
good at treating emergencies. I

really value what Western
medicine can deliver in those

situations. But unfortunately,
our system is so bogged down and

full of chronic care, that it
actually takes the time and

expertise away from really
shining in those moments of

trauma and severe emergency
interventions where we shine. So

it's literally drowning and
killing the good that our system

can deliver.

Did you still say I dialysis is
1%? of the federal budget? Yeah.

Which I'm Yeah, or 1%. Small
number. It's like 1% of the

entire federal budget is GEOSS.
Yeah. And on dialysis in the

United States. There's a Yeah,

it most people don't realize
that, but it is. It's big

business. You know, honestly,
one of my co worker nurses that

we worked with, when I was still
full time, I was, you know, we

literally toyed in getting into
decentralized access services

for those kinds of chronic care
bundles. So the dialysis chronic

venous access, current, you
know, all of that stuff. And

it's, we did a deep dive on, you
know, market opportunity. And it

is, it's astounding, and this
was back in like, 2014 2015.

Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Um, I
think if people had any idea,

they would, they would think a
little bit harder before they

went through the drive thru at
McDonald's.

Drive Thru McDonald's isn't that
bad? Sometimes, but I do think

that I look, the food is house
theme overall, is moving

forward. Mm hmm. But the the
sort of trek to get to the next

level is not unlike any new
technology. I mean, if you go

back to 1990 to 1993, when we
all of a sudden we're talking

about the internet. Nobody knew
how to use Netscape. I don't

even know that many people don't
even know, it is even the reason

why, you know, people don't
understand what chat GPT is. And

yeah, when they start getting an
explained to him a few times, so

they start understanding and
they're like, well, that's the

way I feel the way that we're in
a phase where I would say that

there have been people working
hard on this for, you know, when

we had the internet came
forward, people have been

working hard on it for 20 years,
but nobody knew about it. We

were working with AI on some of
the stuff we were doing like

four years ago before anybody
knew what opening and I was. So.

So I would say that the food is
healthy for people out there

working on this issue, you're in
that crowd that knew about open

AI before open AI happened. Now
that is to start helping the

other people in the system.
Realize that other people in the

system can range from talking to
the CEO of a grocery chain and

saying that this is possible. We
see, traditionalists that work

for the CPGs are trying to
figure out how to coach their

CEO to understand how to make
business decisions around

nutrition that you know that if
you're a CPG, you're thinking

about value engineering the
product or not thinking about

boosting, they are getting the
Omega threes and Omega sixes and

balance. If you're right, if
you're caring for your doctor,

and you don't really spend any
time really on nutrition, you

just spend the time on your
getting some exposure through

those and pick out pressure to
sort of start thinking about

this. But there's shifts going
on. So the for those people

working on the concept of food
is health, our tribe of people

working on food is health. The
thing you gotta recognize is

that many of the people you
discuss this with don't have a

paradigm. Yeah. Oh, you
understand that?

They don't have context. Yeah,
they don't really have the

context to understand the why,
you know, what is this going to

do? For me, it's like the early
adoption curve in the internet.

There were people who
immediately made that

connection, where they're like,
oh, this can impact me in this

way. And that's why I'm going to
be an early adopter, where I

think, you know, in the food as
medicine paradigm shift, and

rethinking what how we value
food. Um, you know, it again,

it's the early adopter curve,
and making people understand the

bigger why we've had decades of
marketing that have been like,

hey, it's the fourth meal. And
it's all about crave appeal and

fast convenience, like all the
value propositions we assigned

to food in the modern era, need
to be actually rethought and re

marketed. And that's a billion
dollar problem that none of us

little people are gonna solve,
like out here, you know, doing

our thing. We really need to get
some like larger, influential

bodies out there that are like
trying to reconnect to the way

we're thinking about our
relationship with food.

Yeah. And so one other thing to
pay attention to, if you geek

out on on innovation and
technology, this notion of

latent demand. And so an example
of latent demand is there are a

whole bunch of people that
wanted to have mobile phone apps

out there before the phone was
introduced. They just didn't

know to call it that. Yeah,
there was latent demand and the

unmet latent demand out there.
And so if you go CPG and say

people want to be healthier,
they know they want to have they

want to buy junk food, they keep
buying junk food. Well, that's

sort of like, do we beat Truman,
I mean, they, they threw him in,

they call everybody on a phone
and said, who you vote for?

Well, they didn't interview the
people that didn't have phones.

And so they they met on the
election. And if you start

looking at the data, I on social
listening data, for example, you

find out that there are a lot of
people sharing recipes that

really get around healthy food
and and conversation, it's

outside the scope of what's
going on. And when you look at

demographic data, you find that
whether somebody's rich or poor,

or they're trying in the grocery
store to find healthier

solutions, that I put that on
the latent demand column, that

there are people no matter where
interesting thought nomic level

would prefer to make food
decisions that don't kill them.

Yeah. And, and to some degree,
when somebody says, Well, I

don't think the demand is there.
But then the question is, as

well as the demand not there, or
is it so hard? People are worn

out trying? Yeah, evolutionarily
are we are programmed to seek

better nutrition. And, and our
bodies know when it's had too

much sugar. But the way in which
we deliver it now is so

effective, that your body's
really can't compensate for it.

Yeah. Addiction pathway in its
own right, man for

the demand for healthier food is
there and I think that we just

got to build that bridge. And
And if somebody says, Well, I

don't think consumers want to be
like this. And the question

should be, how do you know? I
mean, are you the guy that said,

I don't think they need an
iPhone? Or are you the person

that the pet rap was offended?

You? Yeah, they're the people
that were like this digital

camera thing. It no one's ever
going to do it, they're never

going to move away from film.
You know, it's it's just that

mindset, but you know, honestly,
one of the things that I think

about a lot in food trends and
eating trends, right now, it's

the fact that I have two
teenagers and a teenager and

they, you know, they're kind of
riding that wave of the search,

the social contagion, that is,
like really common amongst

teenagers, even here in northern
Idaho, they still have tick

tock, and they have the same
tick tock that every kid does,

whether they're in downtown
Baltimore, or downtown LA, or

downtown Shanghai, like, you
know, it's like, that's what's

so fascinating. And kids these
days are craving bold flavors

they want speaking of teenagers
that are they go, they want

flavor. And you wonder what is
driving this craving for more

diverse molecules in their mouth
that have strong flavors. And

you know, my daughter, and I,
she's 17. She's an interesting

child, having been raised in our
household and going along to a

million business functions a
year. And it gets her brain

thinking of really fascinating
ways. And so she looks at her

cohort, and she's like, Mom, I
wonder if they're craving

micronutrients? I mean, I wonder
if they're, they're

understanding that their body is
malnourished, and they're

craving bolder flavors, because
in nature, you'd be going to

find things that had more bitter
compounds and have more mineral

flavors like your body, if
you're an animal in your nature

is going to drive you to go find
the things that are going to

provide those minerals or
provide those phytonutrients.

Yes, I mean, maybe thinking
about it, you put yourself back

100,000 years, and you say, we
have this thing going around,

and the brain itself, and it
called the human and the humans

gotta go around, well, we better
program them to be able to

figure out what they should eat,
and what they should eat, or the

things that taste good. When you
look at scientifically is

nutritional density and taste
are positively correlated. Yes,

and yield actually negatively
correlated. So we've done a

whole increase yield for various
reasons, wasn't wrong, but then

we find tasty, nutritious
externalities. You go and look

at the GLP. One work and those
Empik work is buried in that

conversation is is that you, you
really are changing you. People

who are who are susceptible to
the overweight trigger, also

have sort of a hypersensitivity
reaction to things like sugar.

And what I get started doing is
it sort of pulling you back from

that edge. And what they're
starting to see is that your

overall calorie consumption goes
down by 25%. Your processed food

consumption goes down by 45.
basis. Yeah, your brain wants to

seek a nutritional density. It's
not like round. Yeah. But you're

seeing a huge shift towards
nutritional density. And that

really, you're just turning back
to evolutionary perspective and

it takes us about 40,000 years
to change our evolution. In our

diet, evolutionarily, and we
really only this content of

sugar available to us in the
last 150 years. Yeah, so our

body, our bodies are your
daughters react to the fact that

your your body is still
programmed, basically off the

availability of the food system
from 40,000 years ago. Yeah.

And it's like a collision course
between like evolutionary, you

know, like epigenetics and then
this modern synthetic overlay

that has come in and kind of
hijacked a lot of our drive

mechanisms and in a really
detrimental way. And, you know,

this farm conference that we
were at Monday and Tuesday, my,

my daughter came with me and you
know, we're sitting there and

we're talking to Ray Archuleta
and Keith mortar, who's a

regenerative farmer in Oregon.
And we were talking about this

very topic because Keith was
telling us about how he had sold

some of his regenerative sorghum
to a sheep farmer. And the sheep

farmer had barley that was
conventional, and then his

regenerative sorghum and the
lambs had gone through, and they

had eaten out all the sorghum,
and left the barley for last.

And so we were talking about
this Dr. And how a lamb um, you

know, these lambs had
specifically their body had told

them that there was something in
that sorghum that was important

for them from a nutritional
standpoint. And he's got some

really incredible labs to
sustain substantiate what he has

going on at a soil level, like
you look at as we speak spec

sheets, and we were gonna send
out the sorghum eventually for

nutrient evaluation, etc, etc.
But like just the we saw it in

an organism, that what the lab
could also quantify, for us, we

saw qualitatively in the
behavior of an animal, which is

so cool, like my mind was blown.
So quarter, we're gonna have to

have you back on a regular
basis, just because there's just

a lot to unpack here. How do we
capture that, and help utilize

that natural intrinsic force
that is in organisms to seek out

things that are better for us,
and put it back into the modern

face systems.

The regenerative system has a
lot of pluses to it, and there's

going to be some shifts in
regenerative AI, the macro

shifts that are going to occur
are growth free, where organic

is really a grower brand, I
think, I think regenerative

might become a retail brand, in
which the grocery chains sort of

catch on through that a little
bit of GLP, one pressure, that

grocery chains will start
saying, you know, what, we want

to deliver nutritional density,
we want to be clear on how we

communicate it to our clients.
So we're gonna do that through

branding, and then we're gonna
put pressure on the supply

system to deliver to this and
we're going to more clearly make

it available as a channel. And I
think that that's a good thing.

Because the shrieking sort of
bring that brand pressure to the

conversation, and we will see is
your daughter and other your

daughter and other people who
want healthier food, are going

to put some new pressure on it,
and and they're going to adopt,

just like when the iPhone was
initially introduced. And then I

think the rest of the system is
sort of a catch on and say, Wait

a second, there are a lot more
people here than we realize, and

start to see that transition.
And the other side, the forces

working to accelerate this that
don't realize it is increasing

cost of health care. It's just
at a breakpoint when again, when

I was giving testimony at the
Senate, it was pretty clear that

every single senator no matter
what side they were on, really

is trying to figure out how to
solve this problem. They're not

they're not 100%. They're not
saying it was like saying that

there needs to be this answer or
that answer, depending on

political party. It really is.
I've got a family member who's

got diabetes, it's not working
out, I realized that this is

hard. And so it's a small thing
that they have to live with. And

so I think we're, we're moving
around, it's an exciting point

in time in history to be working
on this.

I agree. 100% It's literally
what drives people like us to

get up every day and work. What
seems to be insane, long hours,

but you know, somebody asked me
the other day, they were

challenging me a little bit on
it. And I said, Look, if if, if

somebody told me I had a year to
live, which just happened and

one of my very closest friends,
you know, you'd stop working.

And I'm like, No, actually, I
think I'd even work harder.

Because I love what I do. And I
feel like it's this is like the

future and we're leaving a
legacy for the next generation

with this work. So, Carter, I
know people are going to want to

find more about you after
hearing this. If they're not

familiar with their work. I bet
they're gonna want to hear more.

How can people reach out to you
and hear more about your thought

leadership and what you're
doing, etc, etc. Where should

they find you?

Both. I pretty active on
LinkedIn. Every one day on

LinkedIn, I public So lesson
learned less, which I recommend

you take a look at. It's like
what we've done over the week.

And it's great. So thank you.
Associated with that. I have a

sub stack that I normally post
with that called Creative

Destruction, the creative
destruction, not substack. But

we try to publish things. And
you can probably find from those

two sources, LinkedIn, if you
get to me on LinkedIn, you'll

get find it. Great.

Okay, well, we'll make sure that
we put your LinkedIn linked in

there and the sub stack, and
that way people can find and

participate. And, you know, we
can create a critical mass

around these topics, which are
so important. So, Carter, we'll

make sure to have you back on
again, so we can keep up with

your work. Maybe we should have
Aaron join us as well. I've been

trying to get her back on the
season to maybe we'll do it all

together. So thank you for
taking the time. I really

appreciate it. And I'm just
really excited for what's

coming. Thanks for your hard
work.

You're welcome. Thank you.

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