Regenerative by Design

Joanna, hello everyone. You are listening to the regenerative by design podcast where we will be
getting to the root of health, climate, economics and food. I am your host. Joni quinwell Moore.
Join me on this journey as we explore the stories of individuals and organizations who are working
to realign our food system with both human health and the health of our planet. Hello everybody, and
thank you for joining me on the regenerative by design Podcast. I'm very excited to have Ryan
Slabaugh with think regeneration joining us today to talk about all things about regenerative system

design from field to consumer. Welcome Ryan. How's it going?

It's going well. Thank you for asking. I appreciate the opportunity to be on on the show. I've been
listening

great well, you know, you are doing all kinds of fascinating work in this space. And you know, I
think back to why I called this podcast regenerative by design in the first place, and I think I
often forget to talk about that enough, I get so excited about the people I have on the show and
what they do and what their life story is. And so starting today, I want to make sure that we kind
of kick it off with always talking about why design process is so important to building a
regenerative food system, because it's literally that thinking about a system with intentionality,

and all of the things that we do should really be looked at and viewed in that systemic lens with a
goal in mind, which is resilient, healthy food and egg systems. And I would love to kick things off
like I we don't have a ton of time. I like to keep these a little on the shorter side so people can
really dig in. Like, what are your thoughts on regenerative design in context of your work? And if
you have a little story that, like, goes way back to your early roots, like, go ahead and lay it out
for us. We're excited to hear about you.

Thank you again for the opportunity. I love this because I think this is needs to be talked about
more is we people often approach the regenerative movement through regenerative agriculture, and
they hear about it through topics like cover cropping. And that was early my my start was working
with acres USA, focusing on soil health. We didn't really call it regenerative agriculture then, and
that kind of came on board as I more and more as I was working in that community. And what became
very apparent is the world started pointing fingers. It kind of had a backwards reaction, where,

when we started talking about the positive things farmers can do, also in the world, started blaming
farmers for all the things that they were doing, quote, unquote wrong, right? And it became this, oh
no. This is not what we've this was not the actual reaction that we wanted. And so what we wanted
was marketplaces and environments and ecosystems where regenerative agriculture can express itself
naturally and isn't such a different form of a system that it works. And to in order to create those
we had to, we had to realize this was a community based decision. This is something where it had to

be a regional or local community decide that, yeah, this is something really important. Really
important to us. We want to celebrate local food. We want to work hard to build our own nutrition
systems, and we want to work together to support farmers, to make sure they get paid and for the
work they're doing to support not just group of food, but health right in the community. And we've
seen, you know, 60 years of adaptive ag programs around the country, consolidating farms, making
farms bigger and bigger and bigger, and food systems becoming more consolidated and becoming

globalized. And through that, there's a lack of accountability. And I think you asked me to tell a
way back story and in the way back days I was a community newspaper editor, and we would see, and
there's relevance here, I promise where, when we would see national or international media come in,
and when a big news story would say a wildfire out in Colorado, I worked in these mountain towns,
and we'd see some big news happen every now and then, and media would come in, and they would get it
mostly right, but they would also get it kind of embarrassingly wrong sometimes, and not even know

what town they were reporting in, and things like that that like that that would make us giggle in
the local newsrooms. But what it really dawned on me when I got into food systems was how that lack
of accountability is the same thing when we globalize our food supply. And so we've surveyed farmers
in the room and said, Hey, would you care more about the systems you use, growing your food and your
soil health and the ecosystems. If you knew your local communities were the ones eating your food,
and you can imagine it's almost 100% of the people when they really get honest with themselves,

going yet, and that's that's a tough thing to put in a spreadsheet or put in a put on a flag,
necessarily, because it really is, like you said, it's systemic. It involves all these different
forces suddenly wanting to work together to change something,

but two way humanization, which is something that is often lacking in these super consolidated
systems, is we've removed that human feeling from the equation, where you forget that somebody grew
it, somebody processed it, somebody sold it. Where, that's why people love farmers markets, is
because it's shortens that supply chain so much, and it's very humanized, because you're literally
talking to the farmer who often, you know, often, or somebody just one degree separated from the
field. And it restores that human connection. And that's an important piece of the puzzle. I love

it. And

you hear it once, you kind of turn tune into this mindset, like you said, you start seeing it
happening and seeing these things. I was seeing what town was it constant has only had 10 homicides
this year total as a city, and which is amazingly low for a large metropolitan area in America. And
they credit it to they have these peace walks where they have police and churches organize these
peace walks in the evenings, where they just walk around and they talk to neighbors and they do
these things and like that is inherently like you said, bringing like humans back into this idea of

law enforcement, right? Yeah, and, and, and they could so much become data points instead of human
points at some point,

oh my goodness, that's a really powerful correlation, honestly. Because, as you mentioned just now,
this movement into, you know, that started where we're looking at the Ag setting, and then suddenly
we're kind of blaming farmers for, like, the climate effects of farming, or blaming ranchers for
climate effects associated with cattle, etc. And part of that is that dehumanization process, and
certainly the police have experienced that very intensely in the last few years. And I don't want to
get political there, but it is very symbolic of this cultural shift we have experienced in the last

couple of decades, more and more and more, but especially in the last five years, I feel like it's
gotten, it's gotten really intense in America to easily dehumanize another person. So that kind of
makes it harder to fix because you don't feel like there's somebody there to talk to, like when you
feel like there's a human you can talk to, suddenly things seem feel a lot more fixable in my mind.

And I think people are willing to lean into conversations like, how do we create healthier
communities for our kids? How do we come in Illinois, it's like, how do we create streams and rivers
that our kids can fish in and swim in again? And like, you know, there's some real, real pragmatic
things that go way beyond political boundaries. We don't use words like conservation, and we don't
use words, you know, like these words that unfortunately have been politicized for better or worse.
And I was meeting with some Iowa legislators, and the first thing, as I said, was, we do not fund

conservation organizations. So I spent an hour trying to explain how I was not a conservation
organization to them, and I walked away going, oh my gosh, that was a waste of time. But so yeah,

really, did you say? I'm really curious to hear what your art, your argument was like with like,
saying we're not a conservation organization, here's what we do. Because this is a very important
piece of the design thinking behind the regenerative food system transformation.

Don't think they were quite weird. What the questions we kind of asked a question back which they
had started local food campaigns in Iowa, and they were called, like, Iowa grown, I think is what
they were they were called, and then it was basically a sticker that could go on food was growing or
produce in Iowa. It didn't have a whole lot of metrics to it. So we were asking them, like, what is
how are they measuring success? And they were kind of like, well, we have this many farmers
participate. And we thought, well, that's great. That's one metric. But how are you measuring that

economic development related to local food. In other words, how are you going to go back and argue
for this funding to get renewed? What is the ROI on this when, in the face of one of the most, you
know, protective of conventional systems in the country, politically, you know, how are you know,
it's at risk in innately, in that environment, and they really struggled with that question. I don't
mean to pick on them, but they really hadn't thought it systemically, like, yeah, like you're
talking about Yeah.

And I think it's super important to not like, pick on people for not thinking that way, because,
quite frankly, we spend 12 years of our lives in school learning to not think systemically, to think
in a very reductionistic model. And it shows, and it's not, it's not that people are necessarily at
fault for that, because we're literally trained to approach problem solving in that way. And I think
it just again, brings us back to that whole design thinking concept as we're building this
regenerative movement, and in a minute, I'd love for you to tell our listeners more about what

you're working on at think regeneration, because I know you and your team are thinking through that
very systemic lens of like, see genetics all the way to the plate, and that there's a very
intentional design process there that beckons everybody to think a little differently about the
transactional nature of what our food system and egg system is. So go ahead and take a minute and
just, let's, let's give a little crash course on think regeneration to our listeners. I think they'd
love to hear about it.

Thank you. It's we are a community of people around the country that are. Working together on
accelerating changes in the food supply. And that is a very vague statement, because it's it's so
different in every region, in every area that we're working at the Pacific Northwest, you know, your
backyard, it's a lot of large scale growers trying to find paths into domestic markets and trying to
get their systems as input free as possible, and working in really, they're still working in many
monoculture environments, but they're, you can tell they're working hard to experiment, and they're

really looking at alternatives. It's just really inspiring to see that community thinking
differently. And I think there's people willing to as a group, as a group, yes, emphasize that in
other areas like the US southwest, it's the there's just not a population of farmers like there are
in your region, right? And so and you have massive population growth going on in places like Vegas
and Phoenix and Tucson and that are really hot, arid environments, really tough to grow food down
there, you can grow 365, days a year,

right, right? It's another equation. And we had DAX and Yachty on the season two already. So, you
know, I think if our listeners have been, have been listening through the season, they may have
heard that story of oatman farms and the challenges that they face. Regenerating in the desert
southwest, it is such a different situation and but you know, we have to be responsive to our
communities. And I think that context piece, I love this about your work at think regeneration,
because you guys look at the context of the community and really treat like the farmers and the

communities as like a small circular system or a regional circular system. And it brings me back a
lot to also don Sherman, who kicked off the very first regenerative by design podcast. And you got
to spend a couple days with him two weeks ago at our at the regenerate the Pacific Northwest
conference. You know, he really looks at it in a different lens, where he says, the community adopts
the farmer and the farmer adopts the community. When you have a truly regenerative, community based
system in place, it's like it doesn't feel extractive anymore. It feels like contributory and it

feels like a constructive, circular feedback system. It's really an interesting notion.

I learned so much from people who are way ahead of me on that note. I mean, there's a guy named Tito
down in Tucson who runs an organization called flowers and bullets, and it's an it's an inner city
farm that distributes food to its community, and they were able to get 10 acres of an old run down
school that was just sitting vacant and kind of collect kind of collecting bugs and critters for 10
years, and they were able to finally get it from the city and rehabilitate it for the purpose of
growing food for the community, and right away, right right across the street. As soon as they did

this, rents rose, right? It increased because now the dilapidated schools get and it's like, Okay,
now the complexities are. Are getting real right now, we gotta keep, how do we keep the community
that we're trying to serve around this when we make the community nicer and these economic pressures
start to happen? So he, he does something really cool there. I just want to share, uh, water's big
shortage, right? Nobody has enough water in Tucson to grow food. So he realized they do this cooling
off day. Is the fire department where they have kids, you know, fire hoses for kids to kind of get

cooled off. So he's like, Well, why not do that on our farm? So not only do the kids get to cool
off, he gets the water from all those hoses. Like, point, and it was just like this, like, right?
And it's

so much sense that's a regenerative by design example, if I ever heard one,

right, right? He's, he's just a great example of somebody who and we that's generally what we find
right now within the movement, is the people who have been doing so much with so little are so ready
to be the ones to accelerate, because just a little bit of money or a little bit of market
opportunity to just takes off. In Illinois, we're working with a distribution company called down to
the farms. They're going to triple in size in about three or four years, just because of, you know,
as markets open up and they find new markets like corporate centers and restaurants and grant funded

programs, their number of farmers have doubled that they can now that want to come online. And these
are everything from high schoolers with market gardens to, you know, full 500,000 acre, you know,
vegetable growers in the region. So it's it, yeah, it really is. It's the systems have to be there
for that farmer to really succeed.

What does your team work with these initiatives? Like, if, for our listeners, especially if
somebody's out there and say they're in a region where they haven't found their the tribe yet, you
know, like, we're really lucky here in the Northwest. I We have a very strong network of
regenerative farmers and participants inter disciplinary like, multiple stakeholders involved, like
from university to private sector to distribution to farm conservation districts like, that's not
present everywhere. Do. You guys help community people find that. Like, if one of our listeners was

like, Oh, I feel lonely out here. I'm doing this regenerative thing. I need to find my people. Do
you guys help kind of catalyze those community connections

we try to? I certainly recognize there are areas where this is common. You know, I lived right
outside of, you know, Boulder, Colorado for many years. And, you know, there's 100 organic farms and
50 restaurants I want to buy from them. And it's a little simpler to that to create economies of
scale there, we did a program, leadership program in Nebraska for Regenerative, you know, farming
leaders. And one person showed up. You know, that was real. That was like a real early days of
Thinker generation where we're like, oh boy, this is going to be some challenge. And to that

farmer's credit, Kevin Fulton is his name, and he's one of our heroes, because he showed up

with him this week. Oh yeah, I know his cousins, his cousin Scott, it's really interesting. What a
small world on the show, too.

He's got an amazing personal story. I won't give it away, but he's, you know, he was a former, like,
strongman competitor, you know, who do strongman competitions around the world and, like, lift those
giant boulders and things like that, and carry him around. And so he's just got an amazing little
life story. And he was, he trained, and his path to health and the intersection is, he was a trainer
for, you know, college athletes for many years as well. And so how often nutrition was just never
part of their programs, right? That was, it was weightlifting and running. And

yeah, yeah, exactly, not, not paying attention to those critical building blocks that are just so
important. I often look at the kids these days, and I have three kids, so I I'm around a lot of
young people, and, you know, talking to them and seeing what they like to eat and what their norms
are, and I just the nurse in me cringes when I think about the lack of micronutrients that are in
their diet, and then I see how much they crave these really bizarre things. And I'm always like,
gosh, there's got to be some drive somewhere that's they're so micronutrient deficient that that it

just makes them go crazy to go after sugar, or go crazy to go after, like, really bizarrely spicy
things. I mean, I love spicy food, don't get me wrong, but I almost wonder sometimes if it's like a
very primitive drive to seek out micronutrients, like in things that we would find in nature. And
then, unfortunately for kids in America these days, it ends up being like a mini mart with, like,
hot Cheetos and Takis and like some Sour Patch Kids. So it's, it's kind of a sad thing. So,

no, there's really truth to that. It's scary. I mean, when you see it in labs, when they're testing,
I don't you see the study that came out earlier this year on rats, I believe, is what they were
studying. And they put them, they had them feeding on like vegetables and the things that they would
find naturally, and the selecting out of garbage cans and things like that, like, generally, Whole
Foods and raw foods that they would be eating. And then they put them in an environment where they
were, like cheesecakes and Milky Way bars, and they were the reflux, throwing themselves into the

cheesecake and like, rolling around in it, and they would and they in the first environment they
would eat until they were full, they would stop. And very like one in eight got even close to a sign
of obesity, and no, no one died, and the other one, they all got to obese. They all showed signs of
obesity. They also showed signs of health issues. And the this was the the really interesting part.
Then they took that group and they put them back in the original environment where the whole foods
were, and they didn't recognize it as food. And so they almost all, they almost all starve to death

before they would go try that as food again, which, that's the shocking part of it that is wild.

Actually, you'll have to send me that article if you come across it again. I'd love to share that
with the audience, because that is a very thought provoking phenomenon. When you look at what's
happening with kids today, where, you know, they'll come over and just stare at the plate and go,
What is this stuff? And I'm like, Well, if you don't like it, there's a kitchen, and there's
materials in there, and you can go cook yourself something to eat, because, you know, we're this is
what we're eating. And weird or not, um, you know, but just try it. You might like it. And sometimes

they try it and they're like, Whoa, I had no idea I liked this, but they're scared to try it. They
don't recognize it as normal. And that's what's so sad to me. So, you know, that whole, you know,
when we talk about rebuilding regenerative food systems, and we look at what's happening, you know,
say at the corporate level today, where I applaud them for in, you know, creating initiatives to
drive field level regeneration. I think it's, it's important no matter, no matter what, like, we
just have to be talking about it at every level of interaction in the supply chain, with food and

ag. But I often do kind of shrug my shoulders a little bit looking at, you know, can. Regenerative
corn syrup. I mean, what would that accomplish? Right? Like that. It's the most ironic example of
like a huge, consolidated food company looking at a huge monocrop that drives so much of the
farmlands in the Midwest. And no matter if you make that corn syrup regenerative or not, it is still
corn syrup. It is still driving an epidemic of massive diet related disease in humans and not
contributing any nutrition at all. So it's like, how do we really think through that whole process?

And unfortunately, for those of us who do this every day, if you go there too much, it's so
overwhelming you don't even know where to start. Like you just, you know, a lot of people are like,
Fine, I'll just walk away, because this was unfixable for you. Where do you guys feel like you know
you can add the most fulcrum value where it's like, you can focus on one piece of that system,
understanding how it interlinks, links everywhere, and really catalyze some meaningful change that
will allow all the other nodes to come to life, to change the system effectively. Where are you?

Where is your focus and your sweet spot? That's

a good question. I mean, I if we're talking about, like, the big brands who really control, you
know, manufactured food in the US, yeah, I'm, like, their biggest critic and their biggest fan is
the way I look at it, right? You know, it's like, I know they can do better. And, I mean, right, and
I'm the first one to do it, so, but I do think there's education needed. So we as an organization
are consultants with a couple of the large regenerative, you know, food supply events that bring in
those brands and give those brands stage time. And we're kind of, and I won't mention, because

they've kind of brought us in to help, help just be behind the scenes and make sure they're not
making big mistakes. And what we've, we very kindly said, is just because you buy stage time does
not mean you know what you're talking about. And I think that's where you know this is a grassroots
movement, and the people leading this are grassroots community leaders, and until the companies
recognize that and approach it from that standpoint of learning from them and really understanding
that it's going to there's going to be some gaps in outcomes that we want to see happen. And so, you

know, when we and I think really we're talking about human health outcomes, and I think that's
really where we're pushing, saying, until we really want them to make the leap from carbon
sequestration into human health outcomes. And if we can get that to happen, oh boy, I got I will be
right there with them, cheer them on and run amok right now. It's a little bit challenging, because
it is. They're not making the same level of commitment as the true leaders in the movement are.
Yeah,

I mean, there's just it's such a heavy lift changing of gear in the engine while the engine is
running. And so, yeah, I'm in the same camp where I really applaud them. I mean, we're actively
trying to work with some of the largest movers in the food system space to literally come in and
say, How can we help you guys do better? Like, how can we be an innovation partner? Because if
you're a huge corporate conglomerate, innovation is going to be extremely challenging, because your
attention is focused on running the engine and profitability and shareholders and employee

management and all the things that have to happen to keep a viable company going. But if we can get
them to make even very small, very meaningful changes, that's when we start to see at scale
transition that is supported. And I'm pretty thrilled at some of the things that have come along
this year, because I feel like for many years, there's been a lot of talking, but I didn't actually
see a lot of proof of things changing. And this year, I feel like we've actually had a couple of
those commitments from very large players that are that are taking this seriously, and they're still

kind of, you know, putting a toe in the water. Like, you know, okay, let's start here, and then
let's and then let's add in this. And they're being cautious, which I think is smart, but they're
approaching it in a way that they haven't seen before, where they they want to have an earnest
effort and not own everything. Like, okay, let's partner with you guys, because you already have
this amazing farming community. You already have these cool things built. Let's partner with you as
an innovation partner to help us get this done, rather than business as usual, which is like, Okay,

well, we want to manage own everything in house, which is part of that consolidation mindset, but
it's unfortunately rather anti regenerative at times.

No, it's like the pace of change sometimes can be frustrating for us, right? You know, it's, it is
that, you know, a farmer, when they're changing to a regenerative system, doesn't have the advantage
of changing 1% a year or 3% a year. You know, it is more of a wholesale change, right? And so that's
kind of, that inequity within the values set, is, I get it. Why farmers bristle when they see those
big companies take credit for the work and say, we help convert 100,000 acres of regenerative
agriculture like, Well, no, you didn't. You bought my stuff, but I'm not sure you helped convert.

And so I think there's a, it's there's a economist named John Iker that you've probably heard of,
who. I wrote a has been a mentor of mine, and he talks about how as soon as we try to quantify and
monetize a sustainability metric, we've kind of undermined the exact the entire foundation of that
sustainability metric. And so that's that, like that loop that sometimes the larger corporations get
in who only have a singular language with their shareholders or their CEO or their board of
directors, and it's with $1 sign attached to it. And I think that's and I think that's the challenge

is, you know, it's like, we do have to operate with ethical values and with outcomes beyond money if
we're going to accomplish this. And that's really hard. You're right. That's really hard with the
economy regenerative

pro forma. Like, how do you create a truly regenerative pro forma? Which a pro forma is a financial
forecast of a company's activities and how, what all the activities cost and what ROI they have?
Well, how do we really think about where to put those regenerative line items in there and how to
quantify them. It is a huge challenge, but it's needed. I mean, it's it's one of the things we
talked about at rfsi and a TIFs meeting last year in Colorado at the regenerative food system
investment forum, was really, how do we get that regenerative per pharma, and how do we talk about

it collaboratively. So it's not one entity creating this regenerative performance and then having it
live in a silo. Like, how can we actually have some community based conversations about how to do
this? Like, even at a national scale, like, okay, cool. Like, we've got Tom for P foods, like we've
got snack and sat with here, we've got other people, and they're all thinking about like, Hey, these
are two things we want to see on that regenerative pro forma, so we can start to shift the equation
where we've been so driven on efficiency and ignored the other half, which is effectiveness, which

effectiveness is been lost? I mean, because we've only driven for efficiency and by losing a focus
on effectiveness, now we have externalities associated with declining human health, healthcare
spending and environmental damage and climate and when you look at the true cost accounting of
those, we start to see that although it appears that driving towards only efficiency as the metric
saves us money in the long run, it actually costs us a lot more. We just don't have a true cost
accounting system in place to make sense of it and understand it and quantify it. And I think that

that's just a conversation that needs to be had across so many layers of the system in many regions
so we can try to figure this out collaboratively.

I love these you said that because one of the areas we see this happen the most that we actually
think is kind of a financial mistake is when investment companies are going into buying large swaths
of land around the country and and converting them into regenerative or away from conventional
practices. And we've worked with a lot of those companies, and we appreciate the values, and we
really understand that they're they're trying to make an impact. But the pulling away of local
ownership of farmland is one of those things that they're not necessarily adding in the true cost

accounting of that. And so when we look at like creating regenerative systems, and also the
ownership moves to a central location in Chicago or New York or LA or San Francisco, and that local
ownership, and even if they're allowing good lease rates, and even if they're allowing, you know,
while you know, long term leases, and they're doing everything right, there is that displacement of
local ownership that also challenges local banks, local investment companies, you know, and we talk
about volunteer hours. So if you have a family of four that owns the farm, you're gonna probably get

40 to 50 volunteer area hours per year in that community. And so if you buy 20 of those farms, you
don't just owe the money to that community to purchase the land, you actually owe a couple 1000
hours of community service.

Wow, yeah, that's something I haven't ever thought about adding up. And that's, that's a big deal. I
mean, from everything from PTA hours to church and like, community based, you know, whatever that
may be, faith based communities. I mean, like the all of those entities, food banks, libraries,
reading time, Boys and Girls Clubs. I mean, you think about all those activities that all the people
that you know, they all have one, usually one or two things that they're passionate about, but man,
if you consider the net of that, wow, that's pretty impactful. And I've never thought about in that

up. That's a really cool idea. It's

pretty simple and it's quantifiable, and it's a way they could do, yeah, and so yeah, it does take
some creative thinking here too. But it's also takes, like, hanging out in real can be, like, good
real, like, really solid, amazing. That's one of the things this job. The best part of this job is I
get to go to, go to like the best places in America. I really do feel like it's places who have not
lost their identity, and they're very diverse. They're working together. They disagree, they agree.
They all come out for the homecoming parades. They when a house burns down, they're all pitching in

to get a read. So, I mean, these are just amazingly, when the tornado hits, you know, they're all
you've seen the footage. Like rural Mississippi, a tornado will come in devastated town, and
there's, there's there's tears, but you just see their faith. There's this resilience, like roller
we'll be back, we'll be fine, we'll rebuild. Those are just stuff. There's just this amazing thing.
Run into

strong communities breed resiliency. I mean, they just do. It's incredible to see. And
unfortunately, with the degradation and loss of like these humanized food systems and corporate
consolidation, sorry, corporates, I'm going to pick on you for a second, we have lost a lot of that
community fabric that created resilient communities that could agree to disagree on things and work
together, because the common goal was the welfare and health and happiness of the community, and I
think that's just something we all need to fight a little harder for.

Yeah, every that's probably the untold, dirty little secret of every developed country in the world
is that they've had their great policies that remove rural populations and move them into urban
populations for the sake of efficiency and industrialization, right? Yeah, not too many countries
around the Europe on but a little better than than many. But you go to South America and you see,
you know, big, industrialized cities and just some of the most impoverished small communities just
30 miles away, right? Yeah. So yeah, it is too far different in parts of the Midwest where we live

here. Yeah,

yeah, absolutely. So what next? You guys think regeneration? What kind of things do you have ahead
of you that you know people who are listening want to follow your work and get involved. Like, how
can they come and meet you guys? How can they get involved with an event or a conference or a
workshop that you're hosting? We're

gonna be hitting the road here in September, quite a bit. I think we're gonna be in seven or eight
locations over the next two three months, including events in Colorado and Oklahoma. You can learn
more@thinkregeneration.com and find details we have food is medicine programs where we're bringing
in farmers and ranchers, they can attend for free to connect with healthcare professionals and
supply chain professionals around

Yeah, Aaron is involved with that. Aaron coming on next week. So excellent. Yeah, she she was in
season one as well a couple years ago. So we're going to get caught up with Erin, who she's doing,
Aaron Martin, fresh X Oklahoma. Fresh RX, Oklahoma, doing incredible work. So you guys are doing a
workshop together. Let's get this out here, because time is of the essence. If people want to go and
hear or participate, they probably need to get the travel stuff in line right now. Huh? Yeah. We're

going to be in Colorado, just outside of between Boulder and Longmont, Colorado, at the Colorado, at
the yellow barn farm, September 11 and 12th. And that is filling up fast because it's an on farm
event. So that get registered soon. We're going to be at the Tulsa Dream Center, October 15 and
16th, that also has a working farm attached to it. That's Aaron's backyard. And so she's bringing in
her community of growers to really teach healthcare professionals, and we're also bringing in folks
like Jonathan Lundgren, Dr nation winners and some nutritionists to really balance out the

conversation and bring in the nutrient density testing conversation as well to where to update where
we all are on that.

Yeah. Well, so, so critical. Yeah, yeah, once we can tie the outcomes of regenerative agriculture to
just, you know, progressively better quality food, you know, so whether you call that nutrient
density or nutrient integrity, or just, you know, more complete nutritional profiles, I think that's
when we're going to really get that connection With the consumer movements. Because we know that
consumers are driven by price, flavor, health. And lastly, way down the road is, you know, the the
qualities of the supply chain, or climate impact. It's, you know, those tend to trail when it comes

to purchasing. When you talk to consumers, they might say it's really important, but when it comes
to spending money. We just know that nutrition is up ahead, and so I think it's really smart that we
pay attention to that. I mean, it's a former nurse and somebody who literally left healthcare in
order to realign food and agriculture with positive health outcomes and climate resiliency. Like I
sometimes do, get lost in the weeds because I love the biological and ecological perspective of
everything. But at the end of the day, I think the nutritional story is just, is the one that is

going to resonate and help regenerative systems take hold and really grow across America?

Yeah? Convenience. I think I don't know if we'll ever get away from convenience in our culture, you
know? Yeah, I know. I hear that quite a bit, you know, yeah, convenience

is king. It just is. And we can sit around and demonize it. I had a guy on LinkedIn just have a
heyday about the notion of a regenerative potato chip and just come and glued on me. I'm like, I
don't even eat potato chips, like, generally. I mean, I did at the conference, and they were
fantastic, because. I knew lad, the farmer who had grown them, and he's on an amazing, regenerative
journey. And if we can reach people through a potato chip, why not? I'm not saying potato chips are
healthy, but can we make a better potato chip? Can we make a better burgers and fries like, hey, you

know what if, like, we can get fast food to level up and have a higher quality supply chain and
offer better food. It's a win, even though it's still fast food. I I won't probably eat it. Sorry I
said, but hey, I'm glad it's there. You know, I think that's the practice,

that's that's got to be the mindset is, you know, I Tito's taught me a lot about this too. You know,
he's got a liquor store across the street from his farm in Tucson, and one of his goals is, he's
working on mine, that liquor store. And he said, you know, and it's not to take the liquor store
down, and it's not to take it out of the community. That would not make him a very popular person in
his community and so, and it's not to get rid of the Snicker bars or the bongs behind the counter or
any of that stuff. But he does want to set up like a fresh food, like taco stand in the in the front

of it, so that when people are stopping by to get their stuff, they have a little bit better option,
right? And so eliminating it's not eliminating it, it's making it better, right? And like, that's, I
just love that.

I couldn't agree more. I think that that's the future. And, you know, it's, it's interesting. I look
at, like, in our journey, you know, of snack to this foods, and, you know, we started with this
really big picture focus, and then everyone said, No, you need to, you need to pick a really tiny
niche to get started with, because you can't take on the world. And what, you know, day one, which
is true, I agree. But we experienced that, like, hyper niche focus, of like, okay, gluten free,
vegan, all the things, and suddenly you're in this bubble that, like, reasonable people would get a

hold of our millet and tap pancake mix. It's a great pancake mix. It doesn't matter if you're gluten
free or vegan, and you're probably gonna like it if you try it, because millet and tap wrong, you
know, and but they would feel like, I can't eat this because I'm not in that specialty group. It's
like that puritanical health movement that gets very, very reductionistic, and it drove me crazy,
because I'm like, we're not here to take away your gluten or your eggs and milk. We're here to offer
a fantastic product that shows and introduces great, regenerative, climate resilient grains that

you've probably never tried before. And guess what? We made it super easy. You just add water. You
don't need eggs and milk to do it, and, and, but that was lost on people because of that kind of,
it's a cultural phenomenon in the US. I feel like that kind of overwhelms a lot of the food
movements. Like, it's like, you're either a health food store shopper, or you're not. You're like,
head headed to Wendy's, and the middle ground is where it's at, and that's where we're going to get
the most traction and catalyze the most, you know, movement of great quality crops into the food

system. And I'm like, how do we embrace those people in the middle it's tough. It's really tough

because all the messaging is goes exactly opposite to what you just said, right? Because, I mean,
like, we have grocery stores here in Illinois, I won't call it the coffee, but you go in and in the
back there is a health food section, and it has all those products you just mentioned, the gluten
free products and all those and special, right? And then you have the other granola bars, and it's
expensive. And then you have the other cereal aisle, and the other, you know, flannel oil, and you
have the other frozen pizza aisle. And so it does segregate the people who go there right off the

bat, right you and then, and you feel like, self conscious, honestly, when you go and you're like,
yeah, not like, because people are like, Oh, that's who shops and they it's like, from where flip
flops are like, Oh, it's the hippie section.

There they are patchouli and everything. It's exactly, how do we break that down? And so, you know,
I've always thought, like, gosh, you know, like, how do we make a better burgers and fries? Like,
that's the quintessential American thing. Like, that's a huge challenge, and it's totally doable.
And, you know, like, we're working with some really cool french fry innovators right now. And you
know, because we have incredible potatoes in our backyard, and we have people who are taking the
step to really initiate that regenerative transition and process. But guess what they need? They

need help from the market. And people don't buy enough fresh potatoes. They buy french fries. French
fries are what drive the potato sector in volume. I was having lunch

at a conference in Dayton, Ohio one time, and with an Amish gentleman from Pennsylvania, and he told
a story about how when he was growing up in the 80s, they would always go to McDonald's for Friday
night dinners, because McDonald's at the time, had to source all of their beef within 100 miles of
each restaurant to get a franchise, you had to be able to source you on beef. So they were, they
actually knew the McDonald's was buying their beef from their farm, and they would go have it. And
it is, it is possible, yeah, it is, yeah,

that that is interesting. I never knew that. So that's that gives us a little bit of hope that they
can go back to a model like. That if they've successfully done it before, sure they have those
models and performers and supply chain policies still somewhere locked away in a bold so let's get
let's resurrect those babies and look at them.

Yeah. I mean, I think, I think they, I know those companies have just unbelievable amounts of data
and consulting that they look at, and I know that they know what's coming. So I do hope that we see

some change there. Yeah, yeah. I think so Well, Ryan, is there anything that you'd like to leave our
listeners with? You know, we'll, we'll put some information on how they can learn more about, think
regeneration, follow you, maybe your LinkedIn profile, things like that. But how else would you let
people know where to engage with you in your work.

Shoot me an email. Ryan, I think regeneration.com Give me a phone. I'll make sure, Joni, you have my
phone number, and I'll get that out there as well. You can give me anybody can give me a call
anytime my phone. I answer my phone. I'm one of those weird, strange individuals who do that, and
that's really it. You know, this is and the reason I'm not worried about that is, this is a small
movement. So if you're really gonna call me, like, yes, let's get you involved. Let's get you, you
know, involved in this. And we need more people attached to this. I felt like I was hard and kind of

negative during this a little bit, but I have a lot of hope, you know, because of folks like
yourself and just everywhere we go, there's just so many people who are brilliant, smart and
energetic working on this stuff. So yeah,

and I mean, this is the tip of the spear. And I think it's not negativity, it's a it's a bit of
like, fatigue, I think on the part of all of us that have just been spear tipping it for a long
time, because it's a tough place to be, there's not a lot of reward, um, you know, really, like, you
work really hard. It's not, it's so new, and it's so nascent. It's the heavy lifting. And I think
those of us who are really working there, we get tired, and sometimes it can come across as a little
negative, but really it's just the results of banging our head against the wall and realizing what

we're up against. And the more we talk about it, the more solutionaries can come forward and go, you
know, I just listened to that podcast, and I was thinking about that piece of the puzzle, and I
worked in that industry, maybe they've got an idea, and that's where that collaborative design
framework becomes so powerful, is we start getting people together with different ways of solving
problems, and suddenly you come up with a solution that's like, damn. Why didn't we ever think of
that, that that would solve that that would make things so much easier, like a business model, or

the actual working pieces of the puzzle that make this stuff come to life and and go forward,
whether we're doing it or not. That ripple effect. It's a big one,

beautifully put. I appreciate you saying that absolutely, sure,

sure. Well, right? It's been so much fun. Thanks for taking time out of your Friday morning to jump
on and discuss, and we'll make sure to share this right away. I've just been into the promotion of
season two of regenerative by design, so I want to make sure we share this right away. So if people
want to attend these conferences coming up, we'll make sure that we shout that out so they can get
signed up, they can arrange their travel, and they can join you in person to see how they can help
and be part of this movement. So thanks so much.

Thank you, Joni, have a great day. Yeah, yeah. And hey,

those of you who are listening, make sure if you love this content and you love hearing from people
like Ryan, share this podcast, give it a rating on the Apple podcasting platform, and just share it
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