Regenerative by Design

Joni Kindwall-Moore: Hello
everyone, you are listening to

the regenerative by design
podcast where we will be getting

to the root of health, climate,
economics and food. I am your

host, Joanie Kenmore. Join me on
this journey as we explore the

stories of individuals and
organizations who are working to

realign our food system with
both human health and the health

of our planet.

Hello, and welcome, everybody.
We are starting our second

season of the regenerative by
design podcast, and our first

ever segments on what's
happening in the organic

industry. And we're gonna kick
this off most appropriately with

Colleen Kavanaugh, who is my
business partner, and an overall

champion and pioneer of
incredible transparency and

health. Welcome, Colleen, we're
so happy to have you. Thank you,

Joanie,

I'm thrilled to be launching
this. It's so exciting. It's

such like the next phase of 10
years of work. So it's really

thrilling. For

those of you who joined me in my
last season, we took a journey

through the food system
transformation that's happening

in this in our modern times
where we're really looking to

realign the goals of our food
system and agricultural

industry, with those of human
health and care for the

environment. And if you joined
my last season, you probably

know that we went in all kinds
of different directions, ranging

from topics around nutrition and
nutrient density, all the way

through to soil health and deep
chemistry and a lot of fun

farming information. In this
season, season two, we're

actually going to do a lot of
talking about human health,

nutrition and exposure to
chemicals. Now, Colleen is an

expert in the food space when it
comes to recognizing and helping

consumers to understand what is
on their food, why they don't

want to have exposure to that,
and making it a like an overall

fun experience and calling my
boat to kick this session off,

because I feel like the work
you've done is so unique and so

different than anybody else I've
ever met. Like what brought you

to this point today? Like why
are you a food entrepreneur? And

what made you start zego foods?

Colleen Kavanagh: It's a really
good question, because it was

quite a long pathway. So I
started out, wanting to get

involved in politics and making
the world a better place. And I

worked on Capitol Hill for our
congressman for about five years

on programs like school lunch,
and food stamps and things like

that, trying to improve
nutrition for low income kids. I

also worked on the school lunch
program itself, running

government affairs for them. And
I discovered over time that no

matter how hard we tried to
recraft, the regulations to make

the food healthier in those
programs are only a reflection

of the big food industry that
was lobbying them. And there

really wasn't anything that we
could do from the congressional

level because those forces were
so powerful. And the big like

aha moment for me was during the
Obama administration that we

were working with Michelle
Obama's staff and a bunch of

like minded people on Capitol
Hill to improve the nutrition

standards for high schools,
particularly in in their snack

bars, and the sales that they do
for vending machines, because

that's where a lot of high
school kids get all their

calories during the day. And we
were waiting with bated breath

to find out what is big food
going to do now that we have

these great new nutrition
standards. And about three

months later, the first product
that was launched, and this is

not even the punchline of a
joke, but it sounds like it. It

was a Kellogg's brown rice
krispies treat. Right, and we

just threw up our hands. And
we're like, that's not what we

knew. That wasn't what we meant.
And I guess they're always gonna

find a way around us. Yes. So

Joni Kindwall-Moore: I think
that's a lesson a lot of people

have, have literally encountered
where you're trying to create

change. And you realize,
sometimes you just have to take,

you know, the bull by the horns,
for lack of a better word and

say, We're gonna just create
what we want to see, because it

falls on deaf ears when it gets
out to those big layers of

corporate involvement or
business structures that take a

long time to change or are
unwilling to change. Exactly.

Colleen Kavanagh: And I had
spent so many years working with

constituents, right grassroots
folks to try to get support for

bills that my congressman wanted
to get past or to try to help

the school lunch program change
and get the people you know, who

are interested in program
calling Capitol Hill. So I knew

the power of that activating the
consumer who cares about what

you're doing? And so I decided I
would start a food company to

kind of get inside the belly of
the beast and see like what's

happening in the food industry
that we have such a rise in

autism, asthma, allergies, all
of this was happening around you

know, 2010 about when I started
the company And then and then

figure out where to go from
there. So we knew that there was

a gap in the food system, then
there still is healthy food for

people who have who have health
related diets. So restricted

diet. So whether you have severe
food allergies, you have celiac

disease, you have diabetes, the
products that were being named

for people that are compliant
with those diets were really

highly processed imitations of
their counterparts. So cookies,

cakes, pizzas, things like that.
A puff, puff things from

pirates. Yeah, yeah, really
manipulated. And there were a

lot of starches, which we know
are not good for us. High

glycemic, lots of sugar. So we
said, Okay, well, let's do the

hard thing. Let's make a food
that meets all of those dietary

standards for all those special
diets. But it's based on

superfoods foods that are whole
grains, and good for us. So

fruit seeds, and oats. And let's
build products out of that,

instead of trying to imitate
making a cookie or a cake, we

were going to just build
products from those ingredients

that are healthier for people,
so that people who have special

diets could get the healthiest
versions of those foods instead

of the least healthy.

Joni Kindwall-Moore: Yeah, it
really is a design process. And

if you've never owned a food
company, or worked deep inside a

food company, you don't realize
that the design process behind

the development of new food
products is usually not guided

by those principles of like,
what's going to deliver the best

health what's going to deliver,
you know, those overarching

principles that you're trying to
achieve. The design process is

usually driven just by price
point, and shelf life. And those

are two very conflicting design
processes when you're trying to

realign the food system with the
needs of human health.

And I would add to that
machinability,

Ed Bejarana: This episode of the
regenerative by design podcast

is brought to you by snacktivist
nation, elevating climate smart

crops and regenerative supply
chains through innovative

products and transparent market
development.

Joni Kindwall-Moore: So if you
haven't been, you have no idea,

you can have the greatest idea,
you can make the best hand pie

and sell it to the local bakery,
and you make it in your kitchen.

And when you get into a factory,
you have to make that on a big

machine and a that that's 500 or
1000 pounds. Yeah, completely

different. And then how it mixes
how it moves through the

machinery, how many pounds of
pressure does that explode the

proteins and the fibers like
there's a lot of damage that you

can just do taking those same
ingredients and putting them

through an extruder at a really
high pressure, you can ruin all

that attrition.

Yes, and that's something that
most people just don't have

insight into. So I love I love
meeting other entrepreneurs that

are trying to truly rethink the
design process of foods that are

available at scale on the
market, and try to maintain that

integrity.

Colleen Kavanagh: Really
important. And the integrity is

where we go to the next part of
our story, which is that we were

launching an allergy free
product, but without really

understanding what that meant.
And so we were not an allergy

free facility. And instead, but
people and people raise concerns

that these were not gonna be
allergy safe, I started testing

our products, and the tests were
coming out clean that they were

Allard, they did not have any of
the top allergens in them. And I

wanted to be able to show them
that this was a, this was a

clean product. So gosh, wouldn't
it be great if we could just

have them scan this bar, and
know that it was free of these

allergens? And of course, QR
code technology was pretty new

in the US at the time. But we
could do that with a QR code and

linking our lab results to the
QR code on the package. So that

just started us down a whole new
road of purity and transparency

and health.

Joni Kindwall-Moore: Yeah, and
I'm glad that you took it that

direction. Because it's one
thing to pioneer food and food

products. It's another thing to
pioneer a new consumer interface

where people can have direct
access to information about

their food. That is a poor
safety, which when you're

dealing with allergens is a big
deal. But also for just a deeper

understanding of connection,
like, you know, is if they're

labeling this as organic, is it
really organic? Can I see that

there is proof that maybe if
we've imported this organic

ingredient from another country,
where we don't have as much, you

know, hands on control, there's
a lot of different hands that

change custody of the of the
ingredient as it goes around the

world. Does it still have the
integrity that that organic

label stands for? And these are
things that you have hit on

that? You know, I think last for
many, many years. Definitely for

a decade. I've heard people talk
a lot about it, but seldom do I

meet people who actually figure
out a solution and a way to help

remedy this communication on
pack in the food system.

Colleen Kavanagh: It is hard to
do it on pack because you have

so little space at the time we
were making protein bars. So

that's a very how to space,
right? So really all we could

do. But we did end up learning.
So learning the process, doing

the allergy piece and the gluten
piece. And then in 2016, started

testing for glyphosate because
there was concern about

glyphosate, even within the
organic industry. And so we

wanted to test our products and
say, see, hey, what's going on

here, if we're organic, we want
to be able to be proud of that.

But people were starting to
doubt the organic, the validity

of the organic certification,
and say, tested all of our

products. And lo and behold, the
cinnamon that we were using was

chock full of glyphosate, even
though it was organic, and

that's fraud. Right. So that's
fraud. It's not okay. But we

wouldn't have known it had we
not tested. Yeah, that's a

chance then to find a new
supplier. I mean, we tried to

work it out with that supplier,
and they were like talk to the

hand. So that's a good reason to
switch suppliers on a new

supplier, but you really have to
keep testing because as you

know, glyphosate is out there,
right, it drips it, you know,

and for

Joni Kindwall-Moore: those of
you who are listening, I think

probably most of you are
familiar with the word

glyphosate. But it's what we
commonly call Roundup. Like if

you go to Home Depot. It's a
common weed killer. It's

considered a biocide. It's a
broad spectrum antibiotic. And

it is used on so many different
things throughout our food

system. A lot of attention has
been paid in the last couple of

years to using glyphosate as
what's called a desiccant. So if

they go in harvest oats, way,
far north in Canada, where they

have really short summers and
very cold, wet winter falls,

they started the EPA approved in
1996, I believe it was to start

allowing the use of Roundup or
glyphosate as a desiccant. Now

the problem with that is that
depending on where you are,

there's a lot of different rules
about how many days have to go

by etc. But for those of us who
are worried about our health,

and the gut microbiome and all
of these other things, that

leaves a residue of that
compound on the food that is

actually detectable, you can
find it in our food. And there

have been there's a lot of
action in the news this year, in

particular, about glyphosate
residues on Cheerios and other

commonly consumed oats. Now
Colleen has a really interesting

play in that her products, like
she mentioned, have oats as the

background, the backbone for
product development. So Colin,

if you could tell us a little
bit about oats and why you use

the oats that you use and why
they're special.

Joni Kindwall-Moore: Yeah, yeah,
it's a big deal. diets, right,

Colleen Kavanagh: Yeah, and
that's a good segue with the

conversation of glyphosate
because when we talk about it

being used as a desiccant, those
fields are you can't normally if

you're just using Mother Nature
control when you harvest, right,

but if the farmers know that a
big of wet weather is coming,

and those oats are still green,
and they need to harvest and the

last thing they want is water
when they harvest right, it can

lead to all kinds of problems.
So they want to dry out that

plant, they want to basically
kill it, so that they can

harvest faster. And so that's
why they would do a pre harvest

desiccant. And then the problem
and then with our cinnamon, they

actually were spraying it on the
bark after they took it off the

tree. And that would dry it out
faster. So it's kind of used in

different ways, but also as a
desiccant. And one of the

reasons why initially I wasn't
using oats because there were

issues with oats. So celiacs
were worried that it wasn't they

weren't really gluten free
because of cross contact. And

oats themselves are gluten free,
but that they're often grown in

fields where there's wheat
popping up and so there's some

cross contact there. And then
also this glyphosate issue. And

we have met a woman at a
conference. And there's a good

reason to go to like minded
values aligned conferences,

right. And she and I were
talking at the very end, which

we every teaspoon they eat needs
to be higher in nutrition than typical.

just goes to the show, you'd
never close up your booth early.

She was starving. I had never
she was starving. I had snacks,

we were chatting when she said
well, why don't you do any oats

with your, your with ZICO? It's
like, oh, well, you know, there

are questions about there being
gluten free and there's

glyphosate and there's not
enough, you know, and she went

through every single one. She's
like my family grows out in

Montana, I call it the Greater
Montana region, but it's Montana

and the surrounding states. And,
you know, we actually have our

farmers signed contracts that
not only do they not use

glyphosate, of course on their
organic, which is what we would

be buying oats, but also on the
surrounding fields, so there's

no chance of drift and they made
the farmers sign contracts that

they wouldn't use paraquat which
is another very dangerous

chemical actually so dangerous
that if you drink a thimble full

of it, you will die. So it's
much more toxic than Yeah, it's

much more toxic than glyphosate
is. And then they also were

using a method called purity
protocol, gluten free oats which

is where you are may you have
structures in place from you

know, seed all the way through
harvest and processing. Trying

to be gluten free every step of
the way. And these oats actually

grow shorter than invading, you
know, species like different

wheats and Speltz and things
like that. So that if a farmer

sees the tall shoots coming up,
they can actually go through and

just chop those off before they
even sprout a seed. So you

really can control for that. And
it opens up oats to this whole

group of celiacs and highly
sensitive gluten intolerant

people who couldn't have them
before. And the really beautiful

thing about these particular is
that we use their holistic oats

that have been bred to be higher
in protein, by the farmer that

we work with over over the years
naturally, broccoli, it's not a

GMO issue at all. It's just
naturally bread. And they

actually have about double the
digestible protein of typical

oats and 20 to 40%. More iron
and fiber, which is

unbelievable. Big deal.

Colleen Kavanagh: Yeah, and it's
a win win. And what's really

fun, and I love these small, the
small world stories. When I

first started my journey as an
activist, one of our very first

products was a Montana oat
pancake mix made from the flour

from these exact same oats. They
come from Gary Iverson, who is

one of our partners in the
Montana project. So it's like

really funny when you look at
how the universe comes together

and brings people together, even
when there's quite a few years

that span the middle of it. And
it's just meant to be so fast

forward a few years, Collins
doing all this incredible

pioneering work. And I think it
was a two or three year period,

consistently, people would say,
you don't know, Colleen

Kavanaugh, it's ego foods. I
can't believe you guys are not

friends. I can't believe you
don't know each other. It was

like, yes. So we have a friend
named Tim Richards, who founded

a company called philosopher
foods. And he's doing incredible

stuff now. Yeah, great stuff
with almonds, and regenerative

almonds and organic almonds. And
he finally said, Oh, my gosh,

Colleen is in the room here,
you're not allowed to leave I am

we're gonna go find her, but her
together, and we're going to get

you to enter duck introduced and
the rest is history. And that

was when we decided we had, you
know, a such aligned, you know,

mission in the world to try to,
again, realign the goals of our

food system and our agricultural
system to support human health.

And, you know, take care of the
planet while we're at it. So

that gave birth to a big huge
project that we're working on

now. And calling and I'll have
you talk a little bit about how

that came together. And what
precipitated those early

conversations. When you and I
were looking at our businesses,

looking at our teams, looking at
our goals and thinking, you

know, sometimes it's better just
to work smart than to just work

hard, and combine and, and do
big things together.

I would say that neither of us
could have worked harder. But we

were already working on each
other. So we collaborate, right?

We had to collaborate, we had to
build a team, we had to bring in

more people, more brands, and
more money. And we were able to

do that, which is amazing. So we
had this wonderful combination

of events happen where our
farmer that we made farmer we

work with wanted to retire, and
in his his partners. And so he

invited us in and said, hey, you
know, we have this processing

facility that you've been using?
What do you want to do? Jamie

bring us a business plan. And
that was right around the time

when USDA was starting to put
out some grants that were

available, really, specifically
around organic grains, but and

legumes and a couple of other
things. I think it was dairy and

maybe some meats, and to clear
up the bottleneck that exists in

the organic industry where we
have farmers who are growing

organic grains, and we have
consumers who want it, but we

couldn't get them processed
because it was no there's no

regional processing anymore.
Over time. Processors had either

bought up and most often closed
the smaller processors or maybe

it was a farmer who had a little
processing on his land, and he's

no longer doing that anymore.
But they had close hundreds and

hundreds of these. I mean, 1000s
had close yeah. 20,000 down to a

couple 100. So yeah,

Joni Kindwall-Moore: it's like
an extinction when it's like a

business or economic extinction
period. And when you think about

the impacts on our food systems
and resiliency and food systems,

it's a big deal. It's something
that people don't really give

thought to like lots of the
things we're talking about

today. But um, it's also one of
those startling moments when you

realize here in the US, you
know, you go to the grocery

store, you go to Costco, you go
to Fred Meijer, and you think,

oh, there's so much organic food
available on the market, but

it's still only represents like
under 1.8% of our domestic

farmland. It's been fun And, and
so clearly, a lot of this has

been imported from overseas. And
we want to rebuild our domestic

infrastructure in our domestic
agricultural sector that is

dedicated to organic farming.
Right,

Colleen Kavanagh: right, we've
got farmers going under every

week in the US. And yet, we have
these, what we call the value

added crops that are being grown
overseas, and we're importing

them, that's crazy, the farmers
will get a bump from growing

things that are organic. Of
course, if they're regenerative

and organic, that's even better.
At if there's extra protein, we

will pay them more. If it's
gluten free, they get paid more.

But if they're just growing a
commodity out there, pricing is

very, very low. So yeah, there
were so many reasons for USDA to

want to promote this. So
shortening that story. That was

right after I had met you. And
these grants were available in

like, five form that within six
weeks. And then we just quickly

pulled together an amazing group
of people, because both of us

have been doing this for quite a
while now. And so we really knew

that people who had bubbled to
the top do were the best

marketers who were the best
project managers who you know,

all those people. And I love
that we have a CRO who used to

be with Kraft Foods, and we have
a project manager, he used to be

with DuPont, like really wanting
to affect the food system in a

really positive way to come to
us with an amazing experience.

And everyone is amazingly
committed. So the grant that we

received, will feed into a new
business model that we've put

together that we call
collaborative, integrated value

chain. And it really comes from
solving the problem where in

food and farming, everything
happens to use word in silos,

right? The farmer grows, but he
grows and the process or

processes, but the process, and
the manufacturer then will or

the brand will make what they
want to make. And then they hope

that there's a processor, and
they hope that there's farmer,

and they hope they can get it
from the US. But no one's

talking to each other. And then
we've got consumers, right, you

got like four silos, and then
the consumers have to pay way

too much. Right? Yeah,
especially for that value added

piece. So the model that you and
I put together, which we call

civic really takes all of those
problems and weaves together the

resources to form a solution for
everybody that saves money, and

brings money to farmers, lowers
processing costs and packaging

cost per values, allowing brands
to then weigh and get it to

consumers at a lower price and
have a higher sales rate on

shelf in stores. Because now for
example, with our our double

protein oath product, which is
sort of our signature product,

that's $80 at the store right
now, we could sell that for

under seven, if we're able to
under the Civic model that we're

doing. Yeah, it's a huge
difference.

Joni Kindwall-Moore: Well, and
that's a big deal. Because I

mean, most people, when you talk
to them about what the barriers

are to accessing healthier food
cost is like, usually the number

one thing. I mean, there's
always people who are like, I

just don't like healthy food.
But for everybody else. Cost is

like a big barrier. And what we
don't often think about is that

the premium cost on healthier
foods is often reflection, a

reflection of inefficiencies in
the value chain, not necessarily

even a premium at the field. And
so for me as a consumer, if I'm

going to pay extra for an item
of food, and I want that to be

driving the quality of what that
dude is not just paying for

inefficiencies, because it was
small scale processing, or small

scale, you know. And so for
Colleen and I were like how do

we solve those problems of
scalability, because we know any

economic model, scalability and
volumes drive a lot of the

equations. And so when you start
looking at working together, you

start to solve a lot of those
issues, because now you you have

some competitive purchasing as a
group. And that allows our

customers to eventually acquire
a more affordable product that

still has the promise of that
high quality and make sure

premiums go back to the farmers
and reward them for doing best

practices.

Colleen Kavanagh: Yes, and we've
we've built in a financial

system for paying farmers that
does reward them for better

practices. So I think this is
what I'm most excited about. And

you're most excited about model
if we have a new pricing system

built on what they were already
doing in Montana, so we didn't

invent this, we're just taking
it to the next level, where if

they're growing, I'll use the
oats for example. These oats are

organic oats. So what let's
start with just playing

wholeness out, so that's a
specialty variety. It's not a

commodity that is harmless.
That's eight cents a pound. If

you grow them so that they're
gluten free purity protocol

gluten free will give you an
extra 12 cents to 20 cents a

pound. If You can also grow them
organically certified organic,

you get 32 cents a pound. And
then for I'm sorry, 38. And then

for every percent of protein
higher than I think 19, we pay

you an extra penny a pound. So
we can then replicate this for

millet and other gluten free
grains that farmers want to grow

as rotation crops so that they
can grow more regeneratively.

And we can explain to consumers
because you and I have the

brands, and we're going to bring
in other values aligned brands

to help us explain this as well.
Like, we have two offerings for

you, we have organic, and we can
show you all of the metrics. And

we should talk about that, too,
Joni

Joni Kindwall-Moore: will have
to do a whole session on that.

Colleen Kavanagh: But we we can
explain to them through this

system that we've put together a
purity verification and visuals

in a very easy to understand
format, where consumers can just

scan the QR code on the package
and see Oh, I see this either is

certified organic, and I can see
that it's clean. And I can see

that heavy metals are low, which
of course isn't part of organic

certification, but it's
something people really want, or

they're getting, okay, this is
what what we're coining a clean

conventional. What does that
mean? Well, when you scan that

QR code, you can see what that
means, you can see that there's

still no glyphosate, you can see
that the heavy metals are

better, you know, but it doesn't
have that certification. So it

gives us the ability to
differentiate these crops to the

consumer, so that we can reward
the farmer when they get better,

instead of having the 01 game
of, you know, organic or

conventional. And that's it.
Yeah.

Joni Kindwall-Moore: Yeah. Which
is so important when it comes to

like food, equity and access.
And, you know, like, you look at

large scale contracts, like
school lunches, like what you

worked on in your earlier
career, or institutional, those

kind of places where they, they
want organic, they want

something healthier, they don't
want to knowingly be giving

chemicals to kids. But sometimes
the price points for a certified

organic product don't
necessarily meet the mark or

something. And then sometimes we
have farmers that for whatever

reason, need to opt out of the
organic certification program

for a while, like they maybe
need to do. There's a variety of

reasons why this happens from
time to time, but they're still

not using the chemicals that are
going to leave residues on the

food, etc, etc, we don't want
them to just go all the way back

to the bottom of the pile
commodity, where they're totally

selling into a non
differentiated market, because

often they're doing something
that is creating a higher

quality product, whether that's
free from things you don't want

to be exposed to or full of
certain nutritional compounds,

we want to make sure that we're
meeting that market and matching

it to people who need high
volume, lower cost commodities,

that are not just not at ease.

Colleen Kavanagh: Yet, there's a
lot of chatter in certain

sectors of our world where
people are talking about organic

doesn't mean anything, none of
these servers certifications

mean anything, because they'll
see a report that'll come out

from a well meaning nonprofit.
And they will publish these

results. And they'll say, you
know, we publish waste that

studied 20 different types of
oats. And then a third of those

were organic, and two of those,
they detected a small amount of

glyphosate. And for some people,
that's enough to just make

blanket statements, while all
organic food has glyphosate and

our organic food. And I think
it's really important for us to,

as we're working, also working
to improve organic, to recognize

that it is actually by and
large, much cleaner than

conventional, you know, when
you're looking at this in our

data, when you when you're
looking at glyphosate, the

typical conventional oat has in
the US over the past three years

since has 630 parts per billion
of glyphosate in it. And for

organic, it would be what we
call no measurable amount. So

that's under 10 parts per
million. So it's a it's

Joni Kindwall-Moore: a big deal.
Yeah, and it's such a big deal

that they're you know, that's
what this class action suit

against Cheerios is all about,
that the they actually tested

the glyphosate residue, and it
was high enough, where it should

technically be listed as an
ingredient on the declared

ingredients level, because the
glyphosate would be at a higher

amount than like added, like B
12, for example, or B, you know,

whatever. They're adding the the
the amendments to the oat flour.

And that is really frightening
when you think about it, um,

especially considering kids eat
Cheerios all day long. So I

think there's never been a more
important time to really re

embrace what organic stands for
and make sure we're realigning

it with the values that when you
buy something that is organic

you you are buying it because
you don't want exposure to those

chemicals and you don't want to
be supporting and paying for

them to be sprayed into our
environment. Those are the two

number one motivators and I
think sometimes people just

forget that.

Colleen Kavanagh: And the
transparency is really

important. It was incredible to
me that we don't have in the US

right to know if there's toxic
residue on our food before we

eat it? Yeah, I mean, you just
pause there, right like that,

that is amazing if you were to
call a company and ask them if

you could see their heavy metal
test for the baby food that you

buy, yeah, even if they have it,
they don't have to give it to

you. Now, heavy metals that's
starting to change with a new

California law. But anything
else, you do not have a right to

know that information, nor do
you really know how to interpret

it. And when we get into more
details, and showing people

visuals of what we're doing on
how to explain things like heavy

metals to people, we have
visuals now that people can use

not just for when they scan our
products, they can go across

their kitchen, and look at all
the different products that they

have, and actually take our
visuals and see where they fall

on the scale, which is so

Joni Kindwall-Moore: cool. And
very novel, very, very novel. So

I mean, this is just there's so
many layers of impact that

happen with Zika foods and with
civic. And that's what makes it

so fun. But it's also one of the
reasons we're going to break up

our segments about these
projects into a whole series

that's going to go throughout
the podcast season. And we'll

also be speaking in little just
updates like when we have really

fun, good news, because I'll be
doing some other regenerative by

design interviews with some
other leaders and movers and

shakers in the ag and food
space. We can even give little

updates there. So that way
people just know what's going

on. Because this is really
something that is truly

transformational to the food
system. And we're proving that

other models really can lead to
better results, both

economically and for health,
human health and health of the

planet. So I'm really excited
that we got to take this initial

plunge into the world of calling
Kavanaugh, who is a an

incredibly impressive
individual, even on a bad day.

Like literally, I'm always like,
wow, it is absolutely truly

impressive. So thank you for the
work that you do. It's it's

absolutely stunning. And it's
going to be so much fun to

follow this and actually have a
podcast that we regularly update

people that want to know what
we're working on. And they can

join us. So

Colleen Kavanagh: yes, I agree.
I mean, it's it's so funny, just

describing the business model.
And what we've already done is

going to take us several
podcasts. And we can do I go to

the factory and show like we
just installed this piece of

equipment. And this is what
we're gonna meet this farmer and

you know that we could actually
do it, but it is flex system

that we built for the Civic
model. But when you understand

it, it makes so much sense.
Yeah,

Joni Kindwall-Moore: and it's
kind of it's kind of simple,

when it really comes down to it,
it's just rethinking the

efficiencies of the system. So
that we make sure that we

prioritize the things that we
value, which is quality, and

minimizing exposure to toxic
compounds. So and treating

Colleen Kavanagh: the simple
thing milling and CO packing as

almost like a utility, where
it's not a profit center, that

was really the linchpin of what
we're doing. And we could not do

that without the USDA money. And
we couldn't do it without each

other. Like it really is a
collaboration to do that is a

game changer. And it will help
smaller values aligned brands

compete with big companies that
do have their own processing

facilities and milling
facilities. And they don't treat

them as profit centers.

Joni Kindwall-Moore: Right,
exactly. And so I'm so glad you

brought that up, Colleen, we
kicked off season one of

regenerative by design with a
dear friend Don Sherman, of

police heritage farms. And he
talked again, he said, We need

to treat our processing
infrastructure more like utility

or community center. And and so
I think this is really cool,

because it's it's a theme here.
But it's something that is so

important because access to food
is essential. I mean, it is a

national security issue. We're
going to talk about food

security as national security.
In this season, we're going to

have some really exciting guests
joining us, literally from like

military and from health to talk
about why we all need to come

together to really take back our
food system and make sure that

it's resilient and in the hands
of the people who who steward it

and who operate it right here in
our own backyards. So, so many

more things coming, you guys and

Colleen Kavanagh: I'm gonna do a
little housekeeping, I need to

say blurb. So this grant comes
to us from USDA AMS Agricultural

Marketing Services. It's called
organic market development

grant. And we are doing work
underneath that grant, but this

podcast does not represent USDA
views. You got right. That's

Joni Kindwall-Moore: right. And
you'll be you'll be hearing that

more and I just want to say
thank you to the USDA for

hearing us and hearing so many
of the partners that received

these grants. I have to say I
have the great pleasure of

working with a number of
entrepreneurs in our area that

have received either these
grants from MDG or other grants

that have recently come out
through USDA initiatives to help

strengthen our domestic food and
agricultural system. So thank

you, USDA. Thank you, Colleen.
And I'm so happy to be back in

the studio more good things to
come later.

Ed Bejarana: Funding for
Regenerative by design podcast

was made possible by a grant
cooperative agreement from the

US Department of Agriculture
Agricultural Marketing Service,

its contents are solely the
responsibility of the authors

and do not necessarily represent
the official views of the USDA.

Joni Kindwall-Moore: Thank you
for joining me on the

regenerative by design podcast.
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