Regenerative by Design

Hello everyone, you are
listening to the regenerative by

design podcast where we will be
getting to the root of health,

climate, economics and food. I
am your host, Joanie Kenmore.

Join me on this journey as we
explore the stories of

individuals and organizations
who are working to realign our

food system with both human
health and the health of our

planet. So

good morning, everybody and
welcome to the regenerative by

design Podcast. I'm Joanie, your
host. And today we have two

fantastic guests that I've
wanted to interview since I

first started even thinking
about having a podcast. We have

DAX Hanson and Yachty Wang of
the incredible urban farms

project down in Arizona. Not
only are they farmers, but their

food innovators and
entrepreneurs, and truly leading

the way of a new way of thinking
about food and agriculture in

the desert. So welcome, guys.

Thanks for having us, Johnny.
Thank you.

Yeah, I'm so stoked that you're
both here, because I'm familiar

with your stories. And they're
actually really incredible. I'm

so lucky to know many people
across the food and agriculture

space. And I feel like everybody
has a really neat reason or why

that they do what they do. But I
think in your two cases, you

have uniquely distinctive
stories. And I'd like you to

just take a minute to talk about
what your background is, and why

you're working at Oatman farms
today and what your role is

there. So DAX, let's kick off
with you.

So that's handsome, I'm the tone
of oatman flats, ranch and open

farms with my wife, Leslie. And,
Josh, I mean, how they're

described myself, I come from
farming and ranching roots. I'm

an Arizona kid, but I've spent
most of my professional life on

Bainbridge Island and in
Seattle, up in Washington state,

even though come from farming
and ranching roots, my dad

encouraged all of the kids to
become doctors and lawyers and

teachers. So I decided to become
the lawyer. And I've spent most

of my career as a technology
lawyer focused on financial

services, technology, and
digital asset. So I've been

paving the way for a new world,
in, in FinTech in in blockchain

for for many years. And I live
been living with my wife and

kids up on Bainbridge Island
outside of Seattle. But about

six years ago, my aunts and
uncles were at the point where

they were going to sell the
farm, the farm down in Arizona,

because it had been degraded. So
significantly from climate

change, and it was too expensive
to farm. And I caught wind of

that back, they're going to sell
it. And so I asked them to sell

it to me instead of selling to a
third party. And so my wife and

I started our journey, to try to
take an amazing historical piece

of property that has so much of
a legacy associated with it, and

trying to breathe new life back
into it. And so my effort has

been to conserve the land and
the ecosystem around it. I can

remember what it was like when I
was a candidate, that I wanted

it to achieve that, at least
that type of approximate that

status again, and the vehicle
for doing that is regenerative

agriculture. So I know Joni was
looking at your background and

your I looked at the ethnobotany
of Indus discovered that we have

a lot more tools than I thought
we did in the southwest things

that have been domesticated for
hundreds of years that we really

hadn't been growing. And so I
found white or wheat. And we

decided to plant that and some
other small grains in and use

that as the initial vehicle for
restoring the lane on and

actually building a business
that could support the farm. And

that's yeah, into Oatman farms,
the food company where we sell

pancake and waffle mixes,
sourdough bread mixes, a vanilla

extract with the spirit is made
out of the heirloom white store

wheat and other products, baked
products and just some flour. So

that's what we do. And we're
we're hard charging. And we're

seeing a lot of the results
after a lot of success in terms

of the Regeneration which I'm
happy to talk about with you

today. Amazing.

Yeah, decks Do you think that
the fact that you have, you

know, one foot plus firmly
rooted in a very disruptive tech

space, um, gives you a different
perspective on how to approach

management just because you're
always thinking outside of the

box and kind of a rule We'll
breaker or at least working with

a group of rural bakers over in
the blockchain FinTech world. Do

you think that fuels you to
challenge norms?

Oh, absolutely. I mean that I've
been working all of my

professional career with people
who are trying to change the

status quo. And we've been
successful, I've helped them get

there to do it in a way that
complies with the law, but also

develops new laws. And that
brings together disparate parts

of industries together to
collaborate. And so I think it's

that problem solving capability
that I've developed and the fact

that like, you can always get to
a yes, you can, you can find a

way to innovate almost any
problem that I thought, wow,

like, there's something here. So
now when people ask, what's the

next big thing after Bitcoin? I
tell them, It's regenerative

agriculture. I mean, I actually
really do believe it. And I

believe that because I've been
able to identify trends early

on, I've been successful with
them. Before that, I can see

that there really is something
here and regenerative

agriculture, we're talking to be
called regenerative agriculture

in the future, it's just gonna
be called agriculture. It's like

to be called Regeneron. Right?
Foods just can be called food,

right? Because the rest of the
practices are used to grow food

are going to fail. And we're
going to have one solid process

your froze.

I love it. That is fantastic.
Now, how did you and Yanni first

become acquainted because and
then I'd love for Yanni to share

a bit about his past because it
is a fantastic story as well,

you know, so he got he's been
working with me for three years

already, maybe a little bit
more. So about a half year or

using half year so. So my wife
Leslie, and I've been at this

for called six years, almost six
years. And so for the first

time, we just had to work with
I'll call it traditional farmers

down in our area, traditional
farm manager who helped us kind

of recapture the land like it
had been so far abandoned, you

know, there are trees in the
field, the ditches were cracked

and filled up with sand. The
house had been completely

obliterated animals are living
inside of it, right. And so we

just needed some muscle to
gently recapture the farm and

build the infrastructure. So I
had a farm manager will brandy

who was amazing, was from the
region, he helped me do that we

had some farm output, it was
just like brute strength. And we

got our first crop in harvested
our first crop of wheat. But

because we're starting from
scratch, it was even though it

was organic, a lot of our
practices were kind of mimicking

what would be a kind of
traditional conventional farming

practice, because we were
ripping and we were kind of

starting with bare ground. But
we harvested some crops. And

then after we sort of got that
under control, we'll needed to

move on to another project. So I
got in another farm manager.

This time I decided to try to
find somebody who was more of an

environmental scientist,
aerialist Jay who helped us for

about a year. And then for
personal reasons he needed to

move on. And so I asked him who
he knew in his sphere. And he

knew this guy named Yachty Wong.
So he connected us up. least

from my perspective, I talked to
Yachty his wife drove out to the

farm, saw what we're up to. And
then Yachty and I talked, I

think it was that night, or the
next night for like three hours

about our philosophical approach
to farming and what we're trying

to do and, and Indiana, he ended
up telling me he wasn't going to

take this job, he was going to
go take another job. But within

about three weeks, he called me
back and said, I just can't get

open. Last rant out of my head.
I gotta come work with you. So

we've been at it ever since it's
been a really good partnership.

But we'll we'll talk a little
bit more about how we divide and

conquer. You know the effort but
but that's how I met you. It was

really through my former farm
manager who was plugged in at

the University of Arizona
Environmental Science Program.

Yeah. And then you're you were
finishing up your Ph. D. which

is so cool in itself, we can
have a whole show just talking

about your your background and
ethos and how you approach

farming. But what brought you to
Arizona in the first place, I

mean, you're you have a
fantastic story. So please take

a moment to tell our listeners.
Well,

thanks. So

let's do a abbreviated version I
kept thinking about these myself

is because I never really
planned my life. Just let it go

with the flow and figure it out.
You know what I want to do next

and then just figure out okay,
that's the location. Regardless,

I've been where I've not been
and I always want to take

Chance, which my family have
giving up on me on that

perspective, because everything
I'm trying to do is give me a

chance. But in reality, my
family with a trip as a

traditional Chinese mindset,
they always want me to be

footing the ground be stepping
forward at one step at a time

and focus on what I can
accomplish sequentially. So

that's in the logical approach.
I'm very grateful for my

reckless decision for my life so
far.

And I do.

In the past particular, half
year to a year during this

period of time, I recognized
that I was, I almost lost myself

if I'd never stepped onto the
land, because I left China and

left the wild in the most
richest the history of humankind

was 9000 years history of lost
my culture and integrity to how

to actually grow food, food as
medicine, how to actually take

him out of the task and be a
pass through person to carry out

for my assistants will to
pushing them to the next

generation before I go peace
out. I lost those all bookings.

So really, coming back because
of a Farber and with the land,

as I call that, in the personal
journey has saved my life saved

my soul, saved my view on what
life is how beautiful it is.

Because prior to that, I was a
financial portfolio. I had my

own startup in China was very
well off and before I decided to

sell everything and get two
suitcases come here to the US,

because I had a walkout
situation to play NCAA Division

two basketball, I took a chance
but man or family were bad.

Like, you didn't even speak
English what our child to do.

And I said, Well, we never know
it you never tried. It ended my

17 year old athletic career with
finishing triathlon at the

University of Arizona was a
chemical process engineer why

got here and elbows into
industry to develop solar fuel

renewable energy. And then met
my wife through a program to

trace her back to Indiana
recognize her family or from

generational farming family, her
dad was a sixth generation, I

decided to stay here in the US
quit the program about I got

accepted near Switzerland, and
asked my previous adviser at a

university said, can you guys
find me a job. So then they gave

me a PhD position at the
University of Arizona. So study

soil water science, watershed
management, and that's how my

relationship with soil water
beds life started, is everything

doesn't seem to have a platter,
but I think something or

somebody, maybe my ancestors,
were guiding me to go through a

route to that, to help me
recover everything that I

potentially could have lost us.
So I personally appreciate all

those things. Appreciate the
life appreciate everything that

happened, he held the land, the
life, I'll be back, that's

actually perspective, I think
it's really, really build who I

am and who I was and how my
culture was. No.

Well, I love how you're very
conscientious about blending

that instinct and listening to
like the voices of the past like

the ancestors and combining it
with like modern rigor and you

know, because you have really a
collision of both worlds both

you and DAX and I think that
that makes you both very

fascinating people that you
know, you've got one foot in

this very modern culture and
then the other foot in literally

in the soil and working to
regenerate a legacy farm it is,

it is fantastic. So how do you
guys make this work together

with your management? Well,

I'll just say like regenerative
agriculture is not for sissies,

right? I mean, like, like, this
is tough work, especially down

in the desert. I like to joke a
little bit my dad was a bull

writer. And so my version of
extreme sports is farming in the

desert, right. It's like, right
now like it's, you know, really,

yeah. 110 It's

an intense environment.

It's very intense, the most
intense environments, right?

And, and so look, I mean, the
reality is, it is because it is

fast then becoming a modern
Dustbowl down in that area.

We've lost most of this, we've
broken cycles, and we've broken

most of the systems. And most of
them, I just don't I mean, it's

not an exaggeration, right? And
yeah. And so we, in this, even

though regenerative agriculture
has these indigenous roots to

it, right like that. We've
forgotten a lot about how once

did farm in that area, right.
And we're taking a farm that had

been once farmed, indigenously
farmed, and really degraded over

time. I mean, like, hindsight is
2020, you can look back and see,

wow, like, we really did start
to destroy it. You might have

tried to farm it conventionally
with with modern practices. And

then we just end up where we
already here. Right? So the

question is, like, Well, how do
you rebuild it. And so, I mean,

where I start, first of all, is
that nobody has the code here. I

mean, Yachty, and I are probably
the closest to figuring it out

of anybody in in the desert. But
like, it is tough. It's, it's

unpredictable. And so even
though Yachty and I are both

pretty smart in our own ways, we
really have to be aligned, we

got to push each other to
question each other, we got to

bring in other help from other
experts. We've got some great on

farm support. I mean, it doesn't
live with the farm. I don't live

with the farm full time, either.
And so we have to trust our farm

on site farm manager, Carlos to
take care of a lot of the day to

day. But I guess, the way I
think about it is that Yachty

and I are both trying to keep
the car inside the lines in the

den, that takes us a lot of time
to just, you know, consider that

every day, right? And we're
constantly making making

gyrations. Yachty is the
scientist, but I'm the

businessman, right? Like I'm
funding my wife lately. And so

there is this tension, about
looking like what is what's very

best for the soil and the water.
But there's also the

practicality and if we don't
grow something on this ground,

we don't make any money or in
business. Right? And so yeah,

yeah, yeah, it comes from a
socialist communist background

area of China. I'm very much a
capitalist, right? We've been

finding our way through these,
like these political and

economic philosophies, frankly,
in terms of like, well, what is

the best way to care for the
land and for the people, but

we've come down to, together as
a team, and actually with my

wife, we've come out with some
core principles. And so people

who are curious about what we
really believe they go to open

farms.com and read about our
core beliefs, but we care about

things like community with a
really mean it, we care, I think

that food is medicine. And so
Yachty is responsible for making

sure that the farm does operate.
Well. Okay. You understand to

where other habits to have to be
a salesman, right out there to

help in an educator. And I'm
doing so but

true startup style, you do
everything, you know. And look,

I

I'm involved with a very, very
busy legal practice, right, like

I'm involved. Yeah, it's a
little bit nuts that I'm trying

to do farming in addition to the
legal career. It really is. But

it is so important to do it.
That, you know, we that I helped

set the strategy Yadi make sure
that the soil is healthy.

There's all sorts and there's a
lot of paperwork that we have to

do. Yachty is, is managing most
of the paperwork for things like

grant proposals and just
certifications. I read all that

yeah, a lot of work. Paperwork.
Yeah, but anyway, I'll let you

talk to you but like, like, I'm
not a passive owner Yadi and I

unless they were very much like
on the ground collaborating.

It's it hands on writing, and
fun. Were very hands on. Give me

your Yeah.

Yeah, because you really can't
do regenerative agriculture

without thinking through
regenerative business and we

generative governance, and it
actually is a full paradigm

shift. So you can't, you can't
just do business as usual

without thinking through like
that bigger systems level play.

And that does involve a lot of
things. So how do you how do you

how do you approach this? Well,

I'm gonna pick up one that's
talk about both of us trying to

keep the car in the lane. Yeah,
the whip round and keep the car

in the lane back to answer your
question with two wheels? Yeah.

Yeah, you know, it's, it's rare
for us. That's nice to have a

conversation with without diving
into some kind of arguments. I'd

say argument as you know, good
way, it's a long time people

argument is the bad way. But I
think there's a book called

thank you for arguing I read
through and as like, argument is

actually really good. It's like
the statement is like a

different approach. And then how
can you land respectfully, to be

able to adopt other people what
they believe in? will

compensate? How do you kind of
merge that together? And that,

the bloody fact that is probably
the best unique way, you know,

democratic way that we could
actually want something that

goes towards a better outcome?
Yes. Essentially, you know, I've

been working as an independent
contractor, as far as I know,

here, when I got here in the US.
And so I take other people's

interests very seriously. At the
same time, I take my principal

and philosophy very seriously,
as well. So and the partnership,

I think it come with a lot of
respect, or the respect of what

each other's unique value.
That's, I think that's an I

continue to work together and
try to figure it out how to make

those things happen.

Yeah, but you're advocating for
different sides of the system.

And so it's important to have
that healthy tension there. So

that way, it's not lopsided, I
mean, we do know that a lot of

what's driven our food and ag
system towards problematic norms

is just been solely focused on
efficiency, rather than

effectiveness, you know,
effectiveness being human health

outcome and planetary climate
environment. And in you, really,

it's hard as someone who runs a
business, I understand how hard

it is to look at the whole
system all the time, and not

just the p&l or just the sales
velocities, or just the supply

chain, or, in this case, just
the final outcomes, etc. And

that is, that's a difficult
balance, especially when you're

not just farming and selling
into the commodities market. You

guys are also running a food
brand, which is like a whole

nother layer as well to manage

it, let me say that it's all of
those things journey, but it's

also just like, decisions about
what's happening in the in the

soil. Right, right. Like, we
have invasive species, like

Bermuda grass out there, right,
a lot of it that interferes with

the crops. And then some of the
heirloom varieties are a little

bit more hearty, and they can
bite through, but that some of

the modern varieties don't.
Right. And so Yachty and I are

always trying to make decisions
about like, are we going to do

any tillage here? Right? Do we
bring the animals in how many

animals do we bring in? How
much? You know, biodiversity do

we bring onto the field? Which
varieties do we bring in all the

time. And so these are like it,
each one of our fields has a

different profile. And so we're
having to make decisions. And

that's what it really is reading
the tea leaves. It's like

looking into the future looking
backwards. I mean, I've been at

the farm, you know, for longer
than the Adi has been, and I

know what that ground was like
when I was a kid. Right? And so

yeah, so you got he's got a lot
of science and patent crown. And

he can see things that I can't
but but there's no no, that's

it's that we are, we're having
to make decisions about what to

do on the ground. Yeah, yes.
It's that level in addition to

well, which crops should we
grow? And which How much should

we market? And what's the market
right like which finished

products which value added
products should we create and

how do we sell them? And and
then you know, how much we focus

on wholesale distribution or
direct to consumer do we do

Farmers Market rarely do we all
have 24 hours in a day and by

the way, Yachty and I and my
wife Leslie and our whole team,

we We burn more hours than most
people probably would on this

right, like, module endeavor.
Like you're just out of hours.

And so like we're Yeah. And so
those are the things that we go

back and forth on and we're
trying to figure out the best

strategy. Sometimes it has been
for me, and sometimes I've been

writing and, and, but but that's
for me, that's it, we're

figuring it out. Our hope is
bigger. For right, like, we're

trying to make all the mistakes,
so that other people don't have

to. Yeah, yeah, cuz

it is such a unique environment.
And, you know, I always look at

the principles of regenerative
agriculture, like through this

lens that I call the three B's.
First one, being biomimicry and

being respectful and responsive
to the context of in which your

firm is like, whether that's
climate or soil type or access

to water, etc, etc. And you
guys, when it comes to the

biomimicry part, are in a very
unique situation? And I'm really

curious, like, how much water do
you guys have access to? What is

the actual rainfall there?
Versus like irrigation? And and

how many crops are you able to
grow? They're like how many

crops are in your rotation?

I think biomimicry is less
important for us versus

biodiversity. I would say that.
So currently, our marketable

crops are our area. That's where
we have been working with a lot

of chefs bakers, and not only
just on the local scale, and but

also across states at scale,
trying to figure out what are

those can bring those
nutritional value to people's

diet. And in terms of that
nutrition, which is really

coming from everything else, how
we facilitate on the land, not

just managing but facilitating a
man, we got to recognize the

biodiversity part is all the
other AIS is actually the

cohesive and the food chain
together within the soil

ecosystem or ecological system
as a whole. So, in terms of

that, we have covered crop right
now we have done quite a lot of

different extensive approach. We
have warm season summer crops

cover crop to kind of offset and
then rotate with our winter

wheat crop, which has up to 14
or 16 species on the land. And

we also try to relate cropping,
which is warm season plus cool

season when we have a rotational
grazing drought and get the land

to rest. That has been up to 33
species. what that's all about,

like him and I are closest to
figure this out. If you asked

me, every single time you asked
me, I will always shake my head.

No, I have no idea what I'm
doing. I'm still trying to

figure it out. Yeah, it's
certainly evolving a learning

curve. But what we know is the
biological succession is it

doesn't take one year or two
year it take probably software

work in order to bring some of
the species back on the land

that thriving as suppress those
things. Unwanted. Yeah, that is

based on microbiological, macro
biological approaches, through

this vegetation density planting
schedule. How do we facilitate?

Just want to come up with what
node is at this point that twice

part of the season he drew
Arizona, we got a low rainfall,

you know, running through
humidity in the aerobic

environment. Typically, this
landscape is seven to 10%. Wow.

Yeah, it's a lot of different.
We have size that to show why we

are different as we can see
dragonflies? Yeah, it's very

important as a super predator as
the bio indicator for the

humidity. And so I want to leave
that right there. The quality

the drives the environment, you
can see the dragon fly thriving

in the field that tells us
something that you can change

the system is not just mimicry.
It is the facilitation. Exactly.

Yes. And that leads us to the
other the other B's and the

three B's of regeneration. But
um, you know, it's we'll have

Alejandro Kareo on the show here
later this season. And, you

know, when you talk about
restoring small water cycles and

how intentional management
drives, you know, systems to be

restored in cycles to be
restored. And it's a it's a

fascinating thing, because
biodiversity is the second B and

then it focused on biological An
implementation of biological

screening the third. So those
three drivers work together to

restore cycles and restore, you
know, the more nature framework

in a cultivation system. So, I
think it's fascinating that you

guys even cycled through that
many, because a lot of the

farmers that I work with maybe
have like 12 different

rotations. You know, and they,
compared to their conventional

counterparts are extreme when it
comes to biodiversity, which

when you look at a national
system, I mean, it's a

fascinating thing. That's where
the biomimicry piece comes in is

when you're like, Okay, what is
the species density in this area

normal normally, you know, in
some areas, like in the tropics,

that's extremely high. You know,
if you go to the tundra in

Alaska, it's quite limited, you
know, in those kind of indices,

and where you try to find that
optimum sweet spot where you're

working with nature to optimize
that. regenerations. So I love

that you guys are really that
hardcore about it. It's amazing.

You briefly Joanie, like a
couple of just like stats,

right? Like the we actually, we
paused in this last month, to

catch our breath and to say,
Well, wait, what did we

accomplish in college? years?
Right? Like, what? If you're

going to measure it? What have
we done? And applying, you know,

some science to this, we
concluded that we have conserved

in our aquifer, over a billion
gallons, based on amazing what

normally would have been a lot
for conventional crops like

alfalfa, right? And corn, yes,
we've got the water infiltration

rate in the soil, like 50 times
faster. We're storing in the

soil, almost nine tonnes of co2
per acre. Right. We brought back

to the land that we've we've now
documented, like 90 Plus species

of plants and animals that
weren't there when we started,

right. Yeah, we've planted four
and 50 threes. We've planted

150, agave, you know, we've
harvested almost a million

pounds of regenerative organic
certified wheat, right, we've

built with a partner, really
cleaning grade storage facility.

Right. So we've accomplished
quite a bit. Yeah, a lot. With

it is a lot. And we're only
getting started right like that.

The speed at which the
improvements going to happen, I

think is is also accelerated.
Yeah.

Yeah. No, that's wonderful. And
as far as like, your outcomes

reporting, what do you guys do
as far as like? What are your

annual measurements? How do you
capture and communicate that

information to your
stakeholders, consumers,

partners, etc.

Honestly, that's what we are
much better at doing the work

than promoting and marketing to
people, right. But we have a lot

of people that come to the farm,
we have a lot of farm tours, we

bring a lot of people to to see
what we're doing. And in so

we're hoping that we can start
educating better, like, for

instance, like with this report,
we will publish this on our

website, and we'll put on our
social media, essentially, have

an open call to other people to
come scrutinize it, give us

feedback, and honestly, to ask
them to do the same thing.

Right, like, let's not just talk
in realities, let's actually put

our money where our mouth is,
and demonstrate that we can

achieve through our practices.
And if the farming practices

other people are not engaged in
our, our, they're engaging, if

those are destructive, or
they're not improving the land,

then I think there's to be a
real question, at least

consumers and chefs and others
should ask, which is where's the

food coming from? And what's the
impact that is being made

through their purchasing
decisions? Yeah, they

do have anything to add to that.

Here's my 15 seconds out of
eight or pitch to the customer

will buy our product. We grow
heirloom wheat, using no

chemicals, no synthetic
fertilizer, and no preservative

in any of our beta product. To
preserve the ecosystem in your

gut health, essentially, that's
what we're doing and

regenerative as a term organic
as a term. I've never heard of

Qi calm here to the US. And it
has been done for odor culture.

For a long, long time. It has
always been the way why goodwill

Hunka Mexico and when we talk
about organic they're square

from their head.

They want to go to a small
village in China go visit. And I

can see them going to the field.
And then here's what we're going

to cook for you today. They just
pick from their garden. And

yeah, back. So those are the
fundamental importance for us as

people who eat after recognize
is growing food is part of the

responsibility.

Yeah, you're part of the system.
Every time you eat, you're part

of the cycle. People forget that
part. It's really convenient to

forget. Now for those who are
listening, how can they find

your products and buy them and
use them at home? What's the

best

way? So we are in some local
stores in in Arizona, we are on

the menu at some restaurants,
some amazing restaurants like

Arizona wilderness brewery, you
can go taste the food there and

actually drink some of our
products there at Arizona

wilderness brewery, we've
partnered up with choppies, one

of the the leading Brooklyn,
delis in in Arizona been there

for a long time. They're one of
our bakery partners. You can

find our products at open
farms.com. And they, we did have

them accessible on other
platforms, national platforms

and some national grocery
chains. But we reached the

conclusion that at least with
where we're focused right now,

that that was actually maybe not
the highest priority that that,

like, I'm trying to get more of
the food dollar into the hands

of the farmers, right? Like the
the stats that I like to tell

people is that out of every
dollar that's spent on food,

about 78 cents goes back to the
farmer. Yeah. So in under those

conditions, we have degraded
landscapes and poor human

health. And so if we want to
change the dynamic, start by

getting more of the food dollar,
into the hands of the farmer.

And so we've tested some of
these other platforms. And, and

I really do have to build
bridges from where we are to

where we need to be. But a lot
of the existing infrastructure

does not help the farmer, maybe
they haven't science gets back

into the hands of the farmer.
And so we've we don't know

exactly what that model is gonna
look like. But back to the first

one's conversation about
building alternative systems.

We're trying to build on July
like our partnership with

Arizona wilderness brewery and
some other amazing chefs.

They're not charging us money to
get a product out there. Like

they're not Yeah, or cost of
goods, right? If people right,

so if it is the opposite

of CPG. And like broadline,
retail, you're paying to do

business. It's it's crazy. No
wonder that farmers and

everybody in the value chain
gets shortchanged, like the

economics are broken.

And CPG economics are broken.
That's a whole nother

conversation, but also just the
manufacturing process, right,

like dragging food across the
country, just because you try to

get to a certified facility like
that's, that's kind of going

backwards, honestly. And so
we're leaning into local system,

like we want to, we want to grow
a harvest, clean store, package

and distribute our food all
within a 50 mile radius like

that. That's our goal. Consumers
will make it available

nationally as well. But, but
honestly, people should be

buying products close to where
they live, meanwhile, construct

this distribution system. I
mean, honestly, just right now,

just just to grab it for just a
second. We've been trying for

like two weeks, just send some
wheat to our mill, milling

partner in Austin, Texas, the
logistics are so messed up, that

what should just be like a few
days of transportation take like

two weeks to get there. And
that's only right. So like, I

want to dial way back and have
it be more local. But we live

with 6 million people in
Phoenix, and a million or so. If

we need company, work in our own
community, then we need to keep

going back and improving the
products and improving the story

and the message rather than
trying to just go into some

national chain and expect that
they're going to help sell Yeah,

right. So so those are all
things that were evolving with

that Currently too, but, but
people could most readily find

us at omen farms.com Send us an
email eat fearlessly at don't

wind farms.com And we'll hook
them up. Eat fearlessly.

I love that. Well, on that note,
I think it's a great time to

wrap it up. I know our listeners
have learned a ton today, you

guys, I really have such a cool
story and are doing such

incredibly impactful work for
Regenerative food systems and

regenerative agriculture. And I
love that you're taking a

scientific approach. I mean,
it's just definitely takes it to

another level where we can learn
and quantify and scale faster

when we have that kind of
scientific rigor combined with,

you know, instinct and great
culture. So I'm just excited to

see where things go for wind
farms and the team and just keep

up the good work. Is there
anything you'd like to leave for

final closing for our listeners?

Well, I'd say just hashtag regem
works, you know, like, keep keep

adding, or any farmers, or
anybody in the value chain that

feels like this is the right
answer. But it feels hard. Don't

give up. We're growing in, in
numbers. I think regenerative is

something that people are
finally starting to understand.

They're looking forward to that
one of the fastest growing

labels in in grocery stores. So
it's hard. But it's supposed to

be hard, because we're, you
know, we're improving the land

so, so stay positive. Keep up
the good work.

I love it. Yeah. For me, as you
know, I always encourage people

to purchasing better product
that has no chemical that is

organic. That is a investment
for your own health portfolio.

Yeah. Wallet rather than vote
with your bullet. Yeah.

I agree. That's awesome. Well,
thank you so much, everybody for

listening. And I'm Joni, your
host. And if you'd like to learn

more about men farms, we'll make
sure we put some links. So you

can follow both DAX and Yachty
out there in the world of

LinkedIn or wherever they are.
And Oatman farms work as well.

So, thank you so much for
listening. And if you enjoyed

this session, please make sure
to share it with your friends.

When you're going to go pick up
some open farms. Delicious

pancake mix. All right, thank
you so much.

Thank you for having us.

This episode of the regenerative
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